Inkwell: Authors and Artists
Topic 52: Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #176 of 367: Cynthia Dyer-Bennet (cdb) Tue 2 Nov 99 18:23
permalink #176 of 367: Cynthia Dyer-Bennet (cdb) Tue 2 Nov 99 18:23
> I'd rather spend money on books. That's our Martha.
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #177 of 367: Indra Sinha (indra) Tue 2 Nov 99 19:00
permalink #177 of 367: Indra Sinha (indra) Tue 2 Nov 99 19:00
Cynthia, thank you for your kindly words. You are a gent. If this interview has been chaotic, frequently unintelligible and sometimes infuriating, it's no more so than the book itself. I should know. I had to write the bloody thing. At a point of maximum frustration, I expressed my feelings in a short section titled "The Author Speaks" which my editor, rightly, cut from the text. It should never ever see the light of day, so here it is. The Orfer Speaks This tale does not follow the chronology of that vulgar and hypocritical fiction, real life, and, reader dear, an instant's reflection will show you why. Such a telling would be naive, disingenuous, unable to reflect the way things intermesh and cross-fructify in the imagination. In any case, to quote a phrase, 'Quod scripsi scripsi'. It does not matter to me in what order you take the bits and pieces of this bookÊÐ read the thing backwards for all I care. Or throw it down in digust, use its pages to line the hamster cage or hang them from a nail in the smallest room in the house. Do as you please and I must do likewise. If a Coder can be God in his creation then I can and will be supreme Guv'nor of my own tale. If I wish to digress, wander, obliquate, deflex, then I will do it. I am the Bear thy author. I have the power to subject you to a sentence three pages long, without remission or parole. I can pack it with subordinate clauses, or worse, phrases so densely accumulated that you will have to mount expeditions to search for the empowering verb. I can bar your progress with passages from an (allegedly genuine) medieval Sanskrit text about flying machines, not even decently transliterated into roman script, but scribed in such squiggly shit as shall make your eyes water. I can ransack my shelves for dictionaries of the Aka, Sema, Kuvi, Milang, Gojri and Toda tongues and drop into my narrative erudite asides (how extraordinarily happy that 'gatta-prika' should signify 'dung-worm' to the Kuvi tribals of central India and that there is no word for 'adultery' among the Todas) and by fraudulently passing myself off as an expert in the worldly wisdom of sixteen obscure peoples, pygmicize your poor intellect. There is no escape from my vengeance. If you burn this book, or if it finds a home amongst slimy sardine cans, cabbage stalks, tea leaves, soggy aspirin packs and tissues gummy with nameless fluids in the foetid reeking enclosure of your household garbage sack, why, even then my revenge is complete because you will have thrown away $25 or whatever it is that Viking Penguin decide to rush you for it. And if you return it to the library or to the friend from whom you borrowed it, you will still have wasted your time. If you have stolen it from a bookshop, slipped it under a jumper a la Jarly's 'hacked' chicken when no-one was looking, then your criminal risk was all for nothing. Reader, you cannot win, you really have no option but to continue. But having made these threats I also make you a promise. Play fair with me, stay the course and I shall do my best to reward you. Take what you find, if you encounter confusion then endure it, all will become clear. And if at the last word of the very last page you feel bilked, well, tough shit.
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #178 of 367: Katherine O'Brien (feste) Wed 3 Nov 99 01:41
permalink #178 of 367: Katherine O'Brien (feste) Wed 3 Nov 99 01:41
indra I love your use of language and I loved the chaos here, the unexpected, the humour, the bathos, o the everything. thank you again
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #179 of 367: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Wed 3 Nov 99 02:53
permalink #179 of 367: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Wed 3 Nov 99 02:53
Just saw a post by Geno back in <36> that said > Fido suffers from poor leadership Hey, Geno...you oughtta read my interview with Tom Jennings...lessee, it's at http://www.well.com/user/jonl/works/tjennings.html His vision for Fido was anarchic, so the idea of any kind of leadership in there is kinda strange. From the interview: FidoNet is more importantly a social mechanism. It was pretty obvious from the start that it was going to be a social monster, almost more so than a technical thing. And it had to do with the original environment of bulletin boards, which were around for quite a while by the time I got around to doing Fido. Every bulletin board was completely different, run by some cantankerous person who ran their board the way that they saw fit, period. So FidoNet had to fit in that environment. >>>beginnin der quoten<< FidoNet is more importantly a social mechanism. It was pretty obvious from the start that it was going to be a social monster, almost more so than a technical thing. And it had to do with the original environment of bulletin boards, which were around for quite a while by the time I got around to doing Fido. Every bulletin board was completely different, run by some cantankerous person who ran their board the way that they saw fit, period. So FidoNet had to fit in that environment. J: A very anarchic environment. T: Yes, explicitly anarchic. Most people just ran them for their own reasons, and they were just separated by large distances of time and space, so they remained locally oriented. I just ran across old interviews and old documentation from '83 - '84, and we were saying it then. It was just'c9 people didn't hear it, it just went in one ear and out the other. They think 'Oh, anarchism, that means throwing rocks at the cops!' Well sometimes, I suppose, but that's mostly a cop's definition of it. >>>enden der quoten<<< Sorry to drop in so late with this....
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #180 of 367: Goths and Vandals (indra) Wed 3 Nov 99 03:39
permalink #180 of 367: Goths and Vandals (indra) Wed 3 Nov 99 03:39
The ancient Goths of Germany had a wise custom of debating everything of importance to their state, twice; that is,---once drunk, and once sober:---Drunk---that their councils might not want vigour;---and sober---that they might not want discretion... It must not be made a secret of to the world, that this answers full as well in literary discussions, as either in military or conjugal; but it is not every author that can try the experiment as the Goths and Vandals did it... My way is this :-- In all nice and ticklish discussions--(of which, heaven knows, there are but too many in my book),--where I find I cannot take a step without either their worships or their reverences on my back--I write one-half full,--and t'other fasting; or write it all full,--and correct it fasting;--or write it fasting,--and correct it full, for they all come to the same thing... Now when I write full,--I write as if I was never to write fasting again as long as I live;--that is, I write free from the cares as well as the terrors of the world.--I count not the numbers of my scars,--nor does my fancy go forth into dark entries and bye-corners to antedate my stabs.----In a word, my pen takes its course; and I write on as much from the fulness of my heart, as my stomach.---- But when, an't please your honours, I indite fasting, 'tis a different history.----I pay the world all possible attention and respect,--and have as great a share (while it lasts) of that under-strapping virtue of discretion as the best of you. So that betwixt both, I write a careless kind of a civil, nonsensical, good-humoured Shandean book, which will do all your hearts good---- ----And your heads too,--provided you understand it. (From "Tristram Shandy" Book VI, Ch 17, by Laurence Sterne, 1761)
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #181 of 367: David Chaplin-Loebell (dloebell) Wed 3 Nov 99 07:47
permalink #181 of 367: David Chaplin-Loebell (dloebell) Wed 3 Nov 99 07:47
Indra, I've really enjoyed this interview. I'm sure I'll enjoy the rest of the book, even though I'm too much of a cheapskate to buy it. (I don't eat at Girasole either). Thanks for doing this. And thanks to your characters as well.
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #182 of 367: David, re Cybergypsies/Girasole (indra) Wed 3 Nov 99 08:08
permalink #182 of 367: David, re Cybergypsies/Girasole (indra) Wed 3 Nov 99 08:08
Ah go on with you. I'll make a deal with you. Buy the book and I'll stand you a meal for two at Girasole.
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #183 of 367: David Chaplin-Loebell (dloebell) Wed 3 Nov 99 08:38
permalink #183 of 367: David Chaplin-Loebell (dloebell) Wed 3 Nov 99 08:38
Next time you're in Philadelphia? Okay, it's a deal.
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #184 of 367: Girasole & c (indra) Wed 3 Nov 99 08:50
permalink #184 of 367: Girasole & c (indra) Wed 3 Nov 99 08:50
Nah, I meant you and Pamela. I've just fixed it up. Call David at Girasole (985 4659) and check it out! :)
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #185 of 367: David Chaplin-Loebell (dloebell) Wed 3 Nov 99 08:55
permalink #185 of 367: David Chaplin-Loebell (dloebell) Wed 3 Nov 99 08:55
Oh my goodness.
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #186 of 367: David Chaplin-Loebell (dloebell) Wed 3 Nov 99 08:57
permalink #186 of 367: David Chaplin-Loebell (dloebell) Wed 3 Nov 99 08:57
Indra just called me at work-- from England-- and told me to check to the conference. Okay Indra, but why?
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #187 of 367: David Chaplin-Loebell (dloebell) Wed 3 Nov 99 09:00
permalink #187 of 367: David Chaplin-Loebell (dloebell) Wed 3 Nov 99 09:00
Well, I can't wait to experience some of that obnoxious service.
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #188 of 367: David Chaplin-Loebell (dloebell) Wed 3 Nov 99 09:07
permalink #188 of 367: David Chaplin-Loebell (dloebell) Wed 3 Nov 99 09:07
Thanks Indra. We have reservations for Monday. I'll be sure to report back, and I'll pick up your book the same day.
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #189 of 367: Girasol-e-mio (indra) Wed 3 Nov 99 09:08
permalink #189 of 367: Girasol-e-mio (indra) Wed 3 Nov 99 09:08
<cackle> Can't wait to hear your restaurant review. Please do let us all know. Meanwhile you now have to purchase the book - lord love you - I don't which will prove the less digestible! :)
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #190 of 367: David Gans (tnf) Wed 3 Nov 99 09:58
permalink #190 of 367: David Gans (tnf) Wed 3 Nov 99 09:58
I want to thank Cynthia for this: >I'd like to thank lizabeth for launching this interview. She agreed to do >this on very short notice, setting aside paying work to read Indra's book >and prepare for this. I know you put a lot of effort into this, lizabeth, >and I appreciate all the groundwork you have laid here. I understand this >has not been the interview you expected to be a part of and you've really >been a trouper. Thank you.
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #191 of 367: Sathyu Sarangi (sathyu-bhai) Wed 3 Nov 99 10:00
permalink #191 of 367: Sathyu Sarangi (sathyu-bhai) Wed 3 Nov 99 10:00
It is almost 15 years since sudeeps dying machine recorded the people victimized by the worst industrial disaster. True the entire world wept that day. but honestly how many of you are aware of the disaster today .as you are reading this. Believe us, we are witness to Union Carbides relentless efforts to bury the memory of the disaster. With the 15th anniversary of the hiroshima of the Chemical industry falling on December 3, 1999 the survivors have launched the struggle of memory against forgetting. Please do not see these postings as personal challenges in political awareness. We would like to know what chances we have vis a vis Union Carbide. Q.1. The disaster in Bhopal was an accident. Right ? A.1. Wrong. The disaster in Bhopal was neither sudden nor unexpected. All evidence suggests that it was in the making for about four years before December 84. In fact, by locating such a hazardous factory in the middle of populous settlements, Union Carbide set the bomb ticking way back in 1969. Further, in the design and construction of the factory the corporation went by far inferior standards of material quality and operational control in comparison to its factory in Institute, West Virginia. The immediate causes of the disaster are linked to the cost cutting measures set in motion following decisions taken at the Danbury headquarters of the corporation. Economy measures approved and monitored by the company included use of substandard construction material, sacking workers, cutting down safety measures and turning off vital safety systems. The refrigeration unit, essential to keep Methyl Isocyanate at near-zero temperatures was shut off to save about 50 dollars a day ! Workers paid the cost of the companys economy measures with their life and health. In December 1981, one worker was killed and two seriously injured by a phosgene leak. One month later in January 82 there was another leak of phosgene when 24 workers needed hospitalization. There were three more toxic leaks and injuries in the same year. Instead of making the workplace safer, the management harassed and sacked union leaders who brought up issues of health and safety of the workers and the communities in the neighbourhood. Well before the disaster the companys attention was drawn to the grave risk posed by the factory on the surrounding population by a three part report in a local weekly with such headlines as Bhopal on the brink of a major disaster and Help. Please save this city. These went unheeded by the management. When a local lawyer sent a letter to the manager of the factory about the possibility of poisonous chemicals used in the factory leaking on to the neighboring communities and killing people the official told him that the allegation that the persons living in the various communities remain under constant threat and danger, is absolutely baseless. In August 84, nearly three months prior to the disaster, in response to the concerns of the general secretary of the workers union about uncontrolled levels of pollution in the MIC and other plants, the same manager asked him to refrain from making vague complaints which have no basis. At least two years prior to the disaster senior officials of Union Carbide were well aware of 61 hazards, 30 of them major and 11 in the dangerous Phosgene/ Methyl Isocyanate units. This was part of a confidential report on a safety audit of the factory carried out by a team of experts from the US headquarters that listed ten major concerns regarding the safety of the factory. Two months before the disaster an internal report on the Institute,W. Virginia plant warned that a runway reaction could occur in the MIC unit storage tanks, and that planned response would not be timely or effective enough to prevent catastrophic failure of the tanks This report too was kept away from the personnel in the Bhopal factory. On the night of the disaster, water being used for washing the lines, entered the tank containing MIC through leaking valves. The entrance of water in the tank, full of MIC at ambient temperature triggered off an exothermic run-away reaction and consequently the release of the lethal gas mixture. The safety systems, which in any case were not designed for such a run-away situation, were non-functioning and under repair. Lest the neighbourhood community be unduly alarmed, the siren in the factory had been switched off. Poison clouds from Carbide factory enveloped an arc over 40 square kilometres before the residents could run away from its deadly hold. .
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #192 of 367: Pl welcome Sathyu from Bhopal (indra) Wed 3 Nov 99 14:53
permalink #192 of 367: Pl welcome Sathyu from Bhopal (indra) Wed 3 Nov 99 14:53
Sathyu-bhai (literally "brother Sathyu") is my friend Sathyu from Bhopal, with whom I worked to start the free Sambhavna Clinic, which he now runs. He has worked with Union Carbide's gas victims since the day after the disaster. I have been hoping he would come here and join in this discussion. The episode to which Sathyu alludes - "Sudeep's dying tape" - is a story which he told me and which I told in Cybergypsies. The excerpt will form the next posting. You have to imagine night in the dark alleys of Bhopal, which in places are only three or four feet wide. Here and there, kerosene lamps shed a brown light. Midnight, and then...
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #193 of 367: "Raga Rageshri" *excerpt*" (indra) Wed 3 Nov 99 14:54
permalink #193 of 367: "Raga Rageshri" *excerpt*" (indra) Wed 3 Nov 99 14:54
Sudeep is in his pyjamas scouring his teeth. He sighs. Early shift tomorrow, but thereÕs something on the radio he's loth to miss. The midnight concert is a performance of the rare raga Rageshri by sarod maestro Ustad Bahadur Khan. Sudeep is a music connoisseur, but a police inspector's salary does not run to fancy equipment. He sets up his battery-powered cassette recorder and positions the microphone as near as he can get it to the radio. As the station's eerie flute motif signals midnight, he presses the 'record' button, holding his breath, better to hear the first notes of the sarod steal out into the quiet night air. The way a classical raga works is that the instrumentalist, the sitar or sarod virtuoso, begins a slow exploration of the scale. This is like a meditation. It can last an hour, but for radio performances is generally much shortened. When the performer feels that he has wrung what emotion he can from the notes, he nods for the tabla, the hand drum, to join in. Rhythm now provides the focus, as both performers improvise within a strict cycle of beats, the soloist demonstrating his mastery of the various set pieces and ornaments demanded by tradition. After this the music can move to a faster gait, calling for a more instinctive performance; the instrumentalist will make shining runs, the beat quickens again, doubles, the tabla player's fingers blurring over his drums, the sarodist's fingers flying on the strings; the sound becomes a continuous singing tone, in the midst of which are little rushes and runs, like rivers of bright flame inside a fire; the raga reaches its climax when the two instruments blur and become one, and then it stops. But on Sudeep's tape, the sound does not stop. Early in the recording, the music begins to be accompanied by unusual sounds. The sarod's deep-throated tones Ð twenty-five strings ringing on a neck of polished steel Ð are interrupted by the thud of a door, muffled distant shouts. The tabla, coming in, cuts through the interference, but not for long. Within a minute, the tape is recording cries and yells. Doors banging. Footsteps pounding in the lane outside. Rageshri is a sombre raga, it should be heard in silence. But now, inside the house, there is a cough, then a startled cry. A woman calls out in alarm. A child screams. A manÕs deeper voice, very close, tries to restore calm, disintegrates into retching. In a moment of respite, the sarod sobs under Bahadur Khan's clever fingers. The child screams again and the woman shrieks something unintelligible. More coughing. An older child urgently speaking. The music is eclipsed by coughing very close to the microphone. Outside sounds too are louder. The woman begins to weep. The children are wailing, the music is completely drowned. The woman cries, 'Oh mother, I'm dying.' A dry scraping sound. Someone runs across the room. Vomiting. The door of SudeepÕs house opens and noise rushes in, a thunder of feet and hundreds of voices all at once. Hubbub inside too. Frantic feet, a crackle as the radio is knocked, and then the goose-hiss of white noise. Still the tape winds on slow spools. If it were videotape, it would see what comes creeping in, pressing foggy fingers on the window, beating through the open door in waves. It would see the light grow pearly and fade to white. But the machine in Sudeep's abandoned house, its metal circuitry unaffected by cyanide, records only the dismal groans and shrieks, gradually diminishing, and, in the end, silence . . .
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #194 of 367: Indra Sinha (indra) Wed 3 Nov 99 15:02
permalink #194 of 367: Indra Sinha (indra) Wed 3 Nov 99 15:02
Some years ago Magnus and I were talking about Bhopal with the Detonator - this was actually during our sushi lunch in Stockholm, which I mentioned earlier.The Detonator suggested that a Union Carbide virus be created and circulated to all the anti-virus software houses. This would ensure that Carbide's name is listed forever among the infectious and killer pathogens of the virtual world. The virus would display the famous and terrible picture of the child being buried in Bhopal, with the message, "The most shocking thing about this picture is that the world has ignored it."
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #195 of 367: Start of Union Carbide virus (indra) Wed 3 Nov 99 15:07
permalink #195 of 367: Start of Union Carbide virus (indra) Wed 3 Nov 99 15:07
10 10 10 21 21 21 31 31 31 42 42 42 52 52 52 63 63 63 73 73 73 8C 8C 8C 9C 9C 9C AD AD AD BD BD BD CE CE CE DE DE DE EF EF EF FF FF FF 21 F9 04 01 00 00 00 00 2C 00 00 00 00 DC 00 1D 01 00 04 FE 70 08 31 06 29 65 84 1D E6 7B 0A B2 30 4C 33 36 48 E3 3C 4D B9 BC 09 A2 30 09 99 BC 8D A2 87 08 92 18 87 03 50 87 28 5C 8C 40 CB E0 F0 41 18 8C 94 02 E2 20 99 58 A0 97 C9 45 23 20 2C 42 05 30 21 48 48 18 B3 1D 82 E2 D0 2D 18 7C 89 43 22 6E 48 E8 70 2A 47 CB B4 B0 CF FF 72 53 19 02 22 3D 22 37 0C 2F 89 37 0A 0D 54 1B 13 91 92 91 15 6D 42 4F 5E 0C 0E 7A 0A 7E 9D 08 56 16 47 02 1D 91 1F 3B 8D 25 7A 89 0C 1F 2C 5F 66 16 07 9B 0D AE 0D 73 9D 44 44 4F 09 1F 09 03 6E 04 17 06 3A 42 1F 41 98 55 89 9D 50 90 C1 47 55 A4 01 04 43 3E 4F 06 6F 08 1A 01 5C 46 18 40 37 7E 31 D9 76 8D 0F B4 24 5F A8 E1 22 89 87 5A 07 9D 89 23 0C 33 0B 15 05 1C FA 1D FC 91 1D 95 D4 84 1D 28 40 62 93 03 06 32 EC 38 A9 D4 45 98 81 6D 90 16 DC B2 C1 A2 85 A6 16 1F F8 7C 71 83 A0 95 2B 5F FE 43 14 2C 90 33 A7 C7 81 14 0E 14 50 20 60 C1 87 8C 93 39 80 65 A8 34 20 4E 0F 02 14 04 48 29 40 A5 0B 10 4C D2 36 2C 31 40 0D 1F 01 00 DC B4 60 70 03 64 C4 97 2F 42 4E 96 6B A0 82 EA 3C 75 7F FA F8 F8 54 62 A0 1B 89 9D 82 44 C5 C9 6D 9F 3E 7F 0D AD 50 A8 30 A0 08 D5 15 07 6B E8 F8 25 09 DF 4C 0E 02 EC 1C 58 70 6E C5 1C 7A B4 16 88 18 99 60 C5 47 57 0C 06 18 F8 30 8F 86 4D 03 23 F2 29 5E E3 04 08 06 96 C2 84 D9 F5 92 23 4A C7 C4 18 24 60 43 16 65 EF 3C 04 04 36 00 00 D0 45 F1 25 6C 3C E3 91 58 16 07 99 EC 82 2D 76 FC 11 49 04 CE 8D 94 06 12 CD FA 81 17 EF 04 B3 A5 24 6C 18 31 05 E7 91 31 32 3C 9E 2B 19 CF C0 A4 36 2C 21 59 09 AE 89 45 F7 12 26 48 74 C2 A6 E0 F0 E1 19 54 2D CE 7E EA 46 00 64 13 DA 78 22 91 B1 F4
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #196 of 367: Yet Another Character (magnus) Thu 4 Nov 99 07:25
permalink #196 of 367: Yet Another Character (magnus) Thu 4 Nov 99 07:25
These days you could use the web of course. Is there a Bhopal campaign site?
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #197 of 367: Bhopal sites (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 08:25
permalink #197 of 367: Bhopal sites (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 08:25
Magnus, there will be, shortly. Two Bhopal sites, www.bhopal.org and www.bhopal.net. We're setting them up now and they'll be operational I hope inside a week. The old site which was at jamrach.com is down, because I discovered that it was being hosted by the same IP that hosts Union Carbide in the US. In what I think is a move verging on the unethical (haha, what a ridiculous thing to say in respect of Carbide) they have registered the domain of bhopal.com to tell their version of events. There they piously talk of their grief. The same fucking people who have never to this day disclosed either the constituents of the gas that leaked over Bhopal, nor the results of their animal experiments with methyl iso-cyanate. What you will find on bhopal.com, apart from corporate grief, is their "sabotage" lie. They claim that the factory was sabotaged by "a disgruntled employee". I think the facts outlined in Sathyu's earlier post show what an abysmal state of neglect the factory was in, but even if the sabotage allegation were true - which it is not - it is hardly a defence. Whose responsibility is it to make sure that employees are not disgruntled, and not in a position to sabotage plants? Carbide have said they know the name of the alleged saboteur. Why haven't they hauled him up before a court of law? Silly question. Carbide fought tooth and nail to keep this whole affair out of the law courts. They refused to accept jurisdiction of US courts when the survivors tried to sue them in your country. They said they would only accept the jurisdiction of Indian courts. They won this battle. But when an Indian court summoned their Chairman, a guy called Anderson, to appear before it on a charge of culpable homicide, surprise surprise, he never showed up. He said that the Indian court had no jurisdiction over him. The sickening fact is that the events of that night in Bhopal, the facts, the testimony of survivors from both inside and outside the factory, have never been heard in a court of law, never been open to the questioning of attorneys. Carbide talk of the settlement they made with the then Indian government (which was horribly embarrassed by the tragedy, since it was doing everything in its power to attract foreign capital into India) - but that settlement - given a figure of probably 15,000 deaths (immediately and subsequently as a direct result of inhaling the gas) and injury to 600,000 people - amounts by my instant calculation to about $78 per head. Carbide paid $470 million (this is from memory). Exxon, after the Valdez thing, paid $5 billion (where nobody died, a few hundred American fishermen lost their livings for a year). A large number of gas victims in Bhopal have never had a penny of compensation from Carbide's settlement. For those who have received anything at all, their pay-off was somewhere between $700 and $900 (Sathyu please correct me if any of these figures are wrong). Pick up a calculator and divide $900 by 15x52 and that's what it amounts to per week. That's right, one dollar fifteen cents. Even in Bhopal, even in the affected communities, among whom were some of the poorest people in the world, who had to live by hard physical labour every day and being unable to work are now destitute, one dollar fifteen cents a week does not go very far. That's why, against the wishes of my US editor, (but with the full approval, interestingly enough, of the UK editor) I insisted on including the Bhopal story in Cybergypsies. Apart from the fact that it was legitimate subject matter -- Sathyu came to me via the internet -- it is a story so important that it must be told wherever and whenever possible. "We will never forget. We will never forgive. We will never give up." This is what the women say in Bhopal, as they organise yet another march, yet another demonstration, which will never be reported in the western media. Every month in Bhopal, another ten or twenty people die as a result of the effects of the night of horror. The survivors have no money to hire expensive lawyers -- Carbide's lawyer in the UK recently spent a million pounds refurbishing his office -- they have few friends in high places. Unless ordinary people in India and outside wake up to what has happened and demand justice for them, they are going to continue to suffer and die. So in the end, there is only one question to be asked of people who learn about what has happened Bhopal: Now you know. What the fuck are you going to do about it?
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #198 of 367: Yet Another Character (magnus) Thu 4 Nov 99 08:42
permalink #198 of 367: Yet Another Character (magnus) Thu 4 Nov 99 08:42
Well, I think it was very good that you included the story. If you need any help with setting up the web sites just let me know!
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #199 of 367: Help for Bhopal (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 09:03
permalink #199 of 367: Help for Bhopal (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 09:03
We need help not just with websites but with everything. I have asked Sathyu to post on here the address to which donations can be sent within the US. All donations go towards supporting the free clinic in Bhopal are not used for campaigning. That is why we are separating bhopal.org and bhopal.net. .org will be devoted to the charitable work, and will carry medical information, such as we have, .net will be the campaign site. With the 15th anniversary almost upon us, we need to hurry to get these up. Sander in Amsterdam had the idea of making a site that listed all the products on sale that use Union Carbide ingredients. Colgate Palmolive is a major customer for example. If people have this information, they could decide for themselves whether to buy those products.
inkwell.vue.52
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #200 of 367: carol adair (rubicon) Thu 4 Nov 99 09:05
permalink #200 of 367: carol adair (rubicon) Thu 4 Nov 99 09:05
I am and have been so moved by this interview, with all its twists and changes. There is something happening here for all its good and rage and puerile fights and wisdom, for all of what has gone one here - there is something here of what we as human beings are becoming. Some kind of evolutionary sprint has happened somewhere in computers or in the internet that is changing us. I don't know good or bad but this interview is a little primitive glimpse. What the fuck can I do? I sit here and weep at the stories of Bhopal. Of course I had forgotten. The knowledge of Bhopal got buried under a thousand other stories of coughing crying homeless cold hungry arm-severed children. Honestly, I ask you what the fuck can I do that would make any difference at all?
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