inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #201 of 367: carol adair (rubicon) Thu 4 Nov 99 09:07
    
Ah two slips and an answer while I typed.
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #202 of 367: email addresses (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 09:10
    
If anyone wants to contact Sathyu direct about anything to do with
Bhopal, the clinic, or the campaign, you can write to him c/o:

sambavna@bom6.vsnl.net.in

Any UK and European supporters reading this -- thank you -- it's your
donations that run the clinic, you can get up to date information from
The Pesticides Trust, which is reachable via:

pesttrust@gn.apc.org

(Good old Greennet. All our old postings from Kurdish days are still
up there on conference mideast.kurds. To read back through them is to
relive those days, as they happened. EcoNet and PeaceNet in the US are
part of the same network and can also see the Greennet confs. There is
no Bhopal conference, but PANET confs cover some of the ground.)
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #203 of 367: Yet Another Character (magnus) Thu 4 Nov 99 09:11
    
Super idea from Sander (as usual, he is a clever man). Same thing has
been done in Scandinavia with other issues/products to great effect.

It's concrete and easy thing for people to do, and it hits the company
where it hurts most.
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #204 of 367: What to do? (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 09:29
    
Carol, thanks for your comment. What can you do? Well, you can help us
keep the clinic going. The clinic treats about 80 people each day,
most of whom are chronically ill.

As a measure of how much good a small donation can do, the salary of a
doctor in Bhopal is around $2,400 a year.

As I said a moment ago, I have asked Sathyu to post an address to
which donations can be sent within the US.

We can also tell people about this, make sure it isn't just forgotten.
(Carbide would love it to be. Their share price rose by 2c when the
settlement was announced, so lightly was it considered that they had
got off.)

The greed and huge hungry corporations is behind a great deal of the
misery in various parts of the world. I don't forget the relative good
also done by the same corporations, in providing employment, training,
fuelling economies. One thing the internet can do is rally public
opinion against their worst excesses.

I am glad you said what you did about the interview, its ups and down,
changes of direction. I asked Cynthia how it was going, and she said
that she'd had mixed reports: some people loved the chaos and
unpredictability (not deliberate, by the way, it just happened), others
were appalled by Jesus Slut Fucker.

Let me tell you something about him, since he won't tell you himself.
Since he got out of prison (the hack and virusing of an NCIC computer
with a virus that made its clock run backwards) he has not been able to
practice as a nurse. But when strung-out junkies in the neighbourhood
where he lives came banging on his door in the middle of the night,
asking him to come quick, help, he would get out of bed and go and do
whatever he could. I asked his permission to post here some of the
emails I got from him earlier this year, powerful, emotional and wise,
about these people and their lives. He didn't give permission, so you
only met Jesus.
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #205 of 367: carol adair (rubicon) Thu 4 Nov 99 10:16
    
I'm sorry. He's an odd but important creature. It's not often that I get
to meet a genuine figment of imagination alive and walking through my
screen.


I was fascinated at the whole interview and I appreciate your generosity
in not only telling us but showing us some of your story. I think that the
"creatures" coming in and speaking in their language was a thrill.(We have
some such folk here on the WELL, but they are personna's and they know
what they are doing. They are not so bongled and confused by the light as
was your JCSF,)
 It was sort of like listening to some kind of mountain man who could coax
wild animals into my kitchen.  Of course they peed on my rug!  Of course
they stunk up the room!  Of course they chewed on the table leg!  What did
I expect?  Disney creatures?  JCSF is something from the back of someone's
mind. He's a real imaginary person, and he doesn't go by the requirements
of orderly social life.  I'm such a life-time old lady that I could never
contain such a creature, but I liked looking at him.  I also like snakes,
possums and the students in my classes. So who would listen to me?


I don't mean this to distract from the more important discussion. I will
contribut and try to communicate the importance of remembering this event.
But, as an aside, I can hardly wait to get a copy of your book.
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #206 of 367: Sathyu Sarangi (sathyu-bhai) Thu 4 Nov 99 11:03
    
sambhavna, the clinic that i work in that indra helped set up, the
word means possibility . read as two words sama and bhavna it means
compassion.i suppose the one big way we at the clinic survive the
despair in bhopal is to by being fanatic possibilists.its lovely to
connect up with friends of sambhavna.
the people in the us  who collect donations from us are people at
pesticide action network they are doing great work in 
research,publication and campaigning against hazardous pesticides,. if
you wish to help run sambhavna with your donation please send a cheque
to the pesticide action network/bhopal account. their address is 116,
new montgomery street, suite 810, san francisco, ca 94105 phone :
415-541-9140. thank you.
indra wanted me to check on the compensation figures. well over 95% of
the claimants have received less than 600 $s for injury out of which
the government deducts about 230 $s against monetary relief paid. for
death most have received less than 2500 $s.actually these amounts are
far lower than what the indian railways pays to accident victims.
here is one more of bhopal right/wrong ones.

Union Carbide Corporation that assumed moral responsibility for the
disaster helped in medical care, relief and rehabilitation of the
victims. Right ?

A.3. Wrong. In its attempts to evade and  minimize legal
responsibility Union Carbide did its very best to suppress vital
medical information and mislead doctors thus impeding medical care of
the survivors. While the gas was still leaking doctors at Bhopal’s
hospitals were besieged by thousands of affected people come for
medical treatment. Since the doctors had no clue they called Union
Carbide’s medical officer who told them that the gas was akin to tear
gas. “All you need to do is wash with water” was his advice. Meanwhile,
the hospital mortuary was overflowing. The company continues to
withhold information on the nature of the leaked gases and their
toxicity, as “trade secrets” till today.

Through its allies in the state bureaucracy Union Carbide successfully
scuttled administration of Sodium thiosulphate , a drug whose efficacy
in detoxifying the body (and thus providing relief) was documented by
the official agency the Indian Council of Medical Research (ICMR). For
Union Carbide the efficacy of this intravenous injection was proof that
its poisons had indeed reached and were circulating in the bloodstream
of exposed people. Quite clearly this information  went against
Carbide’s claim that the gases caused injuries just to the eyes and
lungs.


Soon after the disaster four “medical experts” from the us of a were
flown in to Bhopal by Union Carbide apparently to provide advice to
local doctors on treatment. It was obvious soon that the real mission
of these doctors was to further the interest of the company. These
experts emphasized in much publicized media briefings that the health
damage caused by the toxic gas exposure were temporary. The confusion
sowed by Carbide’s experts stayed long in the local medical community
and contributed to the neglect of the exposure induced long term
problems.

Union Carbide’s record in providing financial assistance for medical
care of the survivors is even more unpardonable. While the case for
damages was being heard in the federal court in New York in 1985, Judge
Keenan directed Union Carbide to pay 5 million dollars to the Red
Cross for medical care of the victims. With this money the Red Cross
started four community clinics and set up a system for care of
chronically ill survivors. However, the Red Cross had to close down
these clinics as Union Carbide forced it to deposit all of the
remaining fund to the settlement kitty. In the course of the litigation
in the Bhopal courts in ’87 Judge Deo ordered Union Carbide to pay Rs.
350 crores as interim relief so that the victims medical care and
rehabilitation needs could be met while the case for compensation was
being heard. The company refused to pay for medical care of the victims
and went on to challenge the order of the judge. 

Given its principal role in the medical disaster in Bhopal that
followed in the wake of the gas leak it is indeed ironical that the
company today projects a caring image of itself through its hospital
project in Bhopal. The Bhopal Hospital Trust and its proposed 260 – bed
hospital is top on the company’s publicity campaign. The story of this
hospital is no less sordid compared to Carbide’s other involvement in
medical care of survivors. To start with, in place of financing the
hospital from its own coffers, the company sold off its property that
had been confiscated in the criminal case to build the hospital. Its
founding  trustee, a former attorney working for the company, has
charges of financial  irregularities pending in the Supreme Court and
those related to employment of children in the construction of the
hospital. A recent study by the Sambhavna Trust, Bhopal has shown that
many of the drugs being used by the Trust’s community clinics are
causing more harm  than good to the chronic patients. 
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #207 of 367: Send Bhopal donations to: (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 11:11
    
The Pesticide Action Network (Bhopal account)
116, New Montgomery Street, Suite 810, 
San Francisco, 
California 94105 
Telephone : 415-541-9140.

Close to home, or what? Now WELLbeings can help Bhopal's UNWELLbeings
get better.
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #208 of 367: Gail Williams (gail) Thu 4 Nov 99 11:21
    
The Pesticide Action Network is a respected and revered local organization
from where some of us live, definitely!  Thanks for the research.
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #209 of 367: Who is this Sander guy? (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 11:23
    
You're right, Magnus. 

Sander is a genius. When I first saw his work I emailed him
immediately saying "You are a genius and I must work with you." We have
had a lot fun over the last couple of years.

Magnus and Sander met at my house in February, when we had a small
party to celebrate the completion of Cybergypsies. Magnus flew in from
Stockholm and Sander from Amsterdam. They were greeted by a stout Hindu
wearing what looked like a nightshift (this was Pustaq Keet, the
book's fractious Indian bookseller -- "Which lines of Shakespeare's can
rival Jayadeva's lalita-lavanga-latã-parishílana-kómala-malaya-samír&eacut
e;
madhukara-nikara-karambita-kókila-kunjita-kunj-kutiré?") who promptly
set them to threading carnation garlands. Later Keet conducted a
lengthy ceremony in Sanskrit, to the consternation of two of the
guests, who turned out to be Christian fundamentalists, and left early.
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #210 of 367: Sandermania (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 11:32
    
I forgot to give the name of his site.

http://www.lollibomb.com

If you got nothing else from this interview, you got this. The best
Flash designer in the world wide whole.
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #211 of 367: Geno... (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 11:56
    
...is certainly not a fiction of the imagination (whatever JesusSF may
be, and, Carol, if you haven't already seen it, you might look at my
interview with him http://www.cybergypsies.com/geno-jesus.html).

Geno hasn't been on, ever since I asked him to take over as
interviewer, at least not after those first perceptive questions, and
it occured to me that his WELL guest account might have been canned, so
I called his mobile. He was out driving his taxi, somewhere in
Oklahoma City, said he was aching all over with a bad case of flu and
couldn't talk long, because he had to help unload an old lady's
groceries.
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #212 of 367: But... (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 12:00
    
he'll be back.
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #213 of 367: Oh and another thing... (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 12:14
    
...Magnus a "creature"? You are talking about a man who has had dinner
with the King of Sweden.
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #214 of 367: Yet Another Creature (magnus) Thu 4 Nov 99 12:26
    
Re: #205. Yes, Carol, the book is not fiction. We're for real! And of
course, sitting on that mountaintop in Cumbria, hooked up to the net
through my cell phone, I didn't know that Indra was going to write
about it...So now he's gonna get it...

Re: #210 Sander rules.

Re: #213 Yes, of course. Sweden is now officially the No1 Internet
country, so the King wants to be updated by us cybergypsies. On that
dinner not, why don't we celebrate this conference with a great party?
I'm up for a Ruby, Indra!
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #215 of 367: Yet Another Character (magnus) Thu 4 Nov 99 12:27
    
Oh, sorry: 'dinner note'...
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #216 of 367: Cynthia Dyer-Bennet (cdb) Thu 4 Nov 99 13:38
    
heh, for a group of cyberplayers, you sure are literal. 

I seriously doubt Carol thought anybody *really* was a mountainman. If 
you can play with words, if you can play with merging online with RL 
until all the edges blur, I'm kind of surprised that the positive feedback 
and *understanding* of what you've been doing isn't supremely apparent in 
Carol's post. It is to me, anyway. Looks to me like she paid a great 
compliment to this raucous and sometimes quite disjointed discussion. 
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #217 of 367: Cynthia (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 16:23
    
Oh I reckon we got it. 
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #218 of 367: Hej Magnus (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 16:24
    
Hey Magnus, you Swedish lunkhead, did you get it?
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #219 of 367: Yet Another Character (magnus) Thu 4 Nov 99 16:37
    
Oh, actually I got it...despite my nationality. I thought that was
kind of apperent in my take on the mountain and the take on you, Indra.
But, as always, irony can be misinterpreted. So better stay away from
that from now on. 

Also, Carol is a bit of a 'mountain woman' herself. At least in the
outdoors kind of sense, isn't that right? Nice to hear your views,
Carol. You should try Sweden sometime for mountains or for biking. 
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #220 of 367: Re: Getting it (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 16:53
    
Word seems to have reached George Smith at the Crypt Newsletter about
the raucousness of this conference because he emailed me to say:
"Actually I'm surprised that you've gone on as long as you have. Shows
they're more tolerant than I gave them credit for. I wouldn't have
thought the WELL was a good fit for you..." 
        
George's review of Cybergypsies is at
http://www.cybergypsies.com/cryptreview.html ... Alternatively visit
http://www.soci.niu.edu/~crypt (wonderfully funny perspective from the
underground)


George's favourite bit of the book was this:

        Kissimmee, oh Kissimmee quick, you are quite amazing. Forget
cyberspace. The Vortex has nothing on this, a fantasy eleven miles long
with every possible escape from reality. Arabian Nights. Medieval
Times. At Fort Liberty, a cowboy castle, we are served by a lad dressed
like a trooper from Custer's Last Stand. Eve and the children adore
the Congo River crazy golf courses which resemble meerkat colonies,
complete with baked clay termitecture and blue cascades. We are
thrilled by the drive-in burger joints. We eat at Basil's Gourmet
Dinning (sic) which promises the hažtest of hažt European cuisine, but
serves tough game smothered in cream and cranberry sauce -- maybe Basil
is Transylvanian. Each night on the television, smiling people promote
bizarre products. Eve is much taken with a device which looks like a
giant hamster cage.
        "Bear, I must have one. It dries fruit and it's obviously a huge
breakthrough because there's an entire TV programme about it."

        This is the life. England is so dull by comparison. The only thing
missing here, its absence supplying the perfect finishing touch, is the
tiniest trace of irony. All this and Walt Disney World too. In a cafŽ
on Main Street USA, we see a video of WDW's manager, a ferociously
sincere fellow who says, "I never forget that my boss is Mickey Mouse."
        'O o o' says the bird.
        'Yes,' says Lilith, 'we are all refugees from reality.'
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #221 of 367: Message for Sathyu (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 17:32
    
Sathyu, if you come on here in the next few hours (it's already 7am in
Bhopal), there are three things I think you should mention. One, what
some of the children are enduring, those who can't play games and have
never known a day without pain. Two, the state of the factory, left
full of toxic chemicals, and the continuing contamination of ground and
water. Three, the menstrual chaos in young girls who were babies or in
the womb fifteen years ago.

(I have talked to Becky and am sending the laptop with her. She told
me Tim has reached the Turkey-Iran border.) 

hug, Indra
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #222 of 367: Gail Williams (gail) Thu 4 Nov 99 17:37
    

I contacted the Pesticides Action folks earlier today and got this reply:
>
>Please post to the Well list to tell people that they should mail us at:
>
>PAN
>49 Powell St.
>SF, CA 94102
>
>Donations can also be made online:
>http://www.panna.org/panna/howHelp/financial.html
>
>In either case, the donor must specify that the donation is for the clinic.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Skip
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #223 of 367: Jesus Slut Fucker (jesuschrist) Thu 4 Nov 99 20:04
    


Indra and all:

Gee gone a little while and everyone decides to post. Looks like I
missed most of the fun. 

Not very many people know this, but toward the end of writing the book
Indra got writers block and could not go on. He came across a post of
mine concerning the Lone Star Brewery located in Madill Oklahoma. It
concerned a border dispute Oklahoma had with Texas after the first
world war that caused Madill Texas to become Madill Oklahoma. This
made the Lone Star Brewery (Lone Star is the official beer of Texas)
located in Oklahoma. 

To make a long story short, Madill has a sign you see when entering
town that says, "...Pissing in Texas's Beer for over 30 Years!" I
told Indra about this and how the locals said that when one  year they
ceased pissing in the beer (some liberal convinced them that Texans
were actually people) that Texas started complaining that it did not
taste right (Lone Star). Anyway, Indra came to Oklahoma and we went
and toured the Madill Brewery. They even let Indra piss in a bottle or
two (after a on-site Texan tasted his urine). It relieved Indra
writers block and he was able to finish the book. I highly recommend
pissing in Lone Star to relieve writers block.

Indra, continuing the interview:

Did the Dalai Lama ever figure out that you used the "sacred relics"
on that rather strange girl you picked up?





-Jesus
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #224 of 367: Lone Star (indra) Fri 5 Nov 99 00:21
    
Hey Geno, you know I can't remember whether I put the Lone Star story
into the book or not. It was in, originally, but I've been looking all
through a copy of the bloody thing, and I can't find it. Doesn't help
that it is written in 151 bits which range from about six pages to four
lines long, apparently in no particular order--I say apparently,
because I spent months arranging the pieces, like poor Calypso trying
to piece her torn-up poem together--but there is no index or contents,
so even I get totally lost in the mazes and morasses of the thing.
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #225 of 367: "Animula": poem, glyph, clue (indra) Fri 5 Nov 99 00:40
    
 


Light things,                                          
that never                                        you ar 
                                                  seasons move,
                                ks in the                 and the north meets
         their grafts take in ro
          in fallen leaves:                                           
                                                       
                                                                                              Here I come now,
                                                  ignorant of
                           own mind
                          e next.

 
              tables, the 
            you had the

        songs would br
      you are mineral i
rain in

                                       long division
                  know their           wits of a bird,
from one minute to th

forage in chin                         eak from the dark h            
   
                                       n a mothÕs wing

                                the wind or
                                        plunder
                                      se Place; hawthorn
                e swift and             the sump of a
                         from  
                                       f this time I  

   air in the bone,
                                               willow.
 lark: in you the elder  
  flower to berry,                           was teaching you
    the westron 
 
     
                           goldfinches
                           along Ro
                           flower in                     city wall;
                                                         tted wood,
                                                     
                           And all o

    the earthÕs
    of frost,                                  wind.
                                    heart in my boots,
    your
    for                                mal and clay.


                      aulm


                                                                      
            
                                                         my
                                                  anything
                                      beyond the ache of mam

                                      
                                      Roger Garfitt
  

More...



Members: Enter the conference to participate. All posts made in this conference are world-readable.

Subscribe to an RSS 2.0 feed of new responses in this topic RSS feed of new responses

 
   Join Us
 
Home | Learn About | Conferences | Member Pages | Mail | Store | Services & Help | Password | Join Us

Twitter G+ Facebook