Inkwell: Authors and Artists
Topic 52: Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #201 of 367: carol adair (rubicon) Thu 4 Nov 99 09:07
permalink #201 of 367: carol adair (rubicon) Thu 4 Nov 99 09:07
Ah two slips and an answer while I typed.
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #202 of 367: email addresses (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 09:10
permalink #202 of 367: email addresses (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 09:10
If anyone wants to contact Sathyu direct about anything to do with Bhopal, the clinic, or the campaign, you can write to him c/o: sambavna@bom6.vsnl.net.in Any UK and European supporters reading this -- thank you -- it's your donations that run the clinic, you can get up to date information from The Pesticides Trust, which is reachable via: pesttrust@gn.apc.org (Good old Greennet. All our old postings from Kurdish days are still up there on conference mideast.kurds. To read back through them is to relive those days, as they happened. EcoNet and PeaceNet in the US are part of the same network and can also see the Greennet confs. There is no Bhopal conference, but PANET confs cover some of the ground.)
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #203 of 367: Yet Another Character (magnus) Thu 4 Nov 99 09:11
permalink #203 of 367: Yet Another Character (magnus) Thu 4 Nov 99 09:11
Super idea from Sander (as usual, he is a clever man). Same thing has been done in Scandinavia with other issues/products to great effect. It's concrete and easy thing for people to do, and it hits the company where it hurts most.
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #204 of 367: What to do? (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 09:29
permalink #204 of 367: What to do? (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 09:29
Carol, thanks for your comment. What can you do? Well, you can help us keep the clinic going. The clinic treats about 80 people each day, most of whom are chronically ill. As a measure of how much good a small donation can do, the salary of a doctor in Bhopal is around $2,400 a year. As I said a moment ago, I have asked Sathyu to post an address to which donations can be sent within the US. We can also tell people about this, make sure it isn't just forgotten. (Carbide would love it to be. Their share price rose by 2c when the settlement was announced, so lightly was it considered that they had got off.) The greed and huge hungry corporations is behind a great deal of the misery in various parts of the world. I don't forget the relative good also done by the same corporations, in providing employment, training, fuelling economies. One thing the internet can do is rally public opinion against their worst excesses. I am glad you said what you did about the interview, its ups and down, changes of direction. I asked Cynthia how it was going, and she said that she'd had mixed reports: some people loved the chaos and unpredictability (not deliberate, by the way, it just happened), others were appalled by Jesus Slut Fucker. Let me tell you something about him, since he won't tell you himself. Since he got out of prison (the hack and virusing of an NCIC computer with a virus that made its clock run backwards) he has not been able to practice as a nurse. But when strung-out junkies in the neighbourhood where he lives came banging on his door in the middle of the night, asking him to come quick, help, he would get out of bed and go and do whatever he could. I asked his permission to post here some of the emails I got from him earlier this year, powerful, emotional and wise, about these people and their lives. He didn't give permission, so you only met Jesus.
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #205 of 367: carol adair (rubicon) Thu 4 Nov 99 10:16
permalink #205 of 367: carol adair (rubicon) Thu 4 Nov 99 10:16
I'm sorry. He's an odd but important creature. It's not often that I get to meet a genuine figment of imagination alive and walking through my screen. I was fascinated at the whole interview and I appreciate your generosity in not only telling us but showing us some of your story. I think that the "creatures" coming in and speaking in their language was a thrill.(We have some such folk here on the WELL, but they are personna's and they know what they are doing. They are not so bongled and confused by the light as was your JCSF,) It was sort of like listening to some kind of mountain man who could coax wild animals into my kitchen. Of course they peed on my rug! Of course they stunk up the room! Of course they chewed on the table leg! What did I expect? Disney creatures? JCSF is something from the back of someone's mind. He's a real imaginary person, and he doesn't go by the requirements of orderly social life. I'm such a life-time old lady that I could never contain such a creature, but I liked looking at him. I also like snakes, possums and the students in my classes. So who would listen to me? I don't mean this to distract from the more important discussion. I will contribut and try to communicate the importance of remembering this event. But, as an aside, I can hardly wait to get a copy of your book.
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #206 of 367: Sathyu Sarangi (sathyu-bhai) Thu 4 Nov 99 11:03
permalink #206 of 367: Sathyu Sarangi (sathyu-bhai) Thu 4 Nov 99 11:03
sambhavna, the clinic that i work in that indra helped set up, the word means possibility . read as two words sama and bhavna it means compassion.i suppose the one big way we at the clinic survive the despair in bhopal is to by being fanatic possibilists.its lovely to connect up with friends of sambhavna. the people in the us who collect donations from us are people at pesticide action network they are doing great work in research,publication and campaigning against hazardous pesticides,. if you wish to help run sambhavna with your donation please send a cheque to the pesticide action network/bhopal account. their address is 116, new montgomery street, suite 810, san francisco, ca 94105 phone : 415-541-9140. thank you. indra wanted me to check on the compensation figures. well over 95% of the claimants have received less than 600 $s for injury out of which the government deducts about 230 $s against monetary relief paid. for death most have received less than 2500 $s.actually these amounts are far lower than what the indian railways pays to accident victims. here is one more of bhopal right/wrong ones. Union Carbide Corporation that assumed moral responsibility for the disaster helped in medical care, relief and rehabilitation of the victims. Right ? A.3. Wrong. In its attempts to evade and minimize legal responsibility Union Carbide did its very best to suppress vital medical information and mislead doctors thus impeding medical care of the survivors. While the gas was still leaking doctors at Bhopals hospitals were besieged by thousands of affected people come for medical treatment. Since the doctors had no clue they called Union Carbides medical officer who told them that the gas was akin to tear gas. All you need to do is wash with water was his advice. Meanwhile, the hospital mortuary was overflowing. The company continues to withhold information on the nature of the leaked gases and their toxicity, as trade secrets till today. Through its allies in the state bureaucracy Union Carbide successfully scuttled administration of Sodium thiosulphate , a drug whose efficacy in detoxifying the body (and thus providing relief) was documented by the official agency the Indian Council of Medical Research (ICMR). For Union Carbide the efficacy of this intravenous injection was proof that its poisons had indeed reached and were circulating in the bloodstream of exposed people. Quite clearly this information went against Carbides claim that the gases caused injuries just to the eyes and lungs. Soon after the disaster four medical experts from the us of a were flown in to Bhopal by Union Carbide apparently to provide advice to local doctors on treatment. It was obvious soon that the real mission of these doctors was to further the interest of the company. These experts emphasized in much publicized media briefings that the health damage caused by the toxic gas exposure were temporary. The confusion sowed by Carbides experts stayed long in the local medical community and contributed to the neglect of the exposure induced long term problems. Union Carbides record in providing financial assistance for medical care of the survivors is even more unpardonable. While the case for damages was being heard in the federal court in New York in 1985, Judge Keenan directed Union Carbide to pay 5 million dollars to the Red Cross for medical care of the victims. With this money the Red Cross started four community clinics and set up a system for care of chronically ill survivors. However, the Red Cross had to close down these clinics as Union Carbide forced it to deposit all of the remaining fund to the settlement kitty. In the course of the litigation in the Bhopal courts in 87 Judge Deo ordered Union Carbide to pay Rs. 350 crores as interim relief so that the victims medical care and rehabilitation needs could be met while the case for compensation was being heard. The company refused to pay for medical care of the victims and went on to challenge the order of the judge. Given its principal role in the medical disaster in Bhopal that followed in the wake of the gas leak it is indeed ironical that the company today projects a caring image of itself through its hospital project in Bhopal. The Bhopal Hospital Trust and its proposed 260 bed hospital is top on the companys publicity campaign. The story of this hospital is no less sordid compared to Carbides other involvement in medical care of survivors. To start with, in place of financing the hospital from its own coffers, the company sold off its property that had been confiscated in the criminal case to build the hospital. Its founding trustee, a former attorney working for the company, has charges of financial irregularities pending in the Supreme Court and those related to employment of children in the construction of the hospital. A recent study by the Sambhavna Trust, Bhopal has shown that many of the drugs being used by the Trusts community clinics are causing more harm than good to the chronic patients.
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #207 of 367: Send Bhopal donations to: (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 11:11
permalink #207 of 367: Send Bhopal donations to: (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 11:11
The Pesticide Action Network (Bhopal account) 116, New Montgomery Street, Suite 810, San Francisco, California 94105 Telephone : 415-541-9140. Close to home, or what? Now WELLbeings can help Bhopal's UNWELLbeings get better.
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #208 of 367: Gail Williams (gail) Thu 4 Nov 99 11:21
permalink #208 of 367: Gail Williams (gail) Thu 4 Nov 99 11:21
The Pesticide Action Network is a respected and revered local organization from where some of us live, definitely! Thanks for the research.
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #209 of 367: Who is this Sander guy? (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 11:23
permalink #209 of 367: Who is this Sander guy? (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 11:23
You're right, Magnus. Sander is a genius. When I first saw his work I emailed him immediately saying "You are a genius and I must work with you." We have had a lot fun over the last couple of years. Magnus and Sander met at my house in February, when we had a small party to celebrate the completion of Cybergypsies. Magnus flew in from Stockholm and Sander from Amsterdam. They were greeted by a stout Hindu wearing what looked like a nightshift (this was Pustaq Keet, the book's fractious Indian bookseller -- "Which lines of Shakespeare's can rival Jayadeva's lalita-lavanga-latã-parishílana-kómala-malaya-samír&eacut e; madhukara-nikara-karambita-kókila-kunjita-kunj-kutiré?") who promptly set them to threading carnation garlands. Later Keet conducted a lengthy ceremony in Sanskrit, to the consternation of two of the guests, who turned out to be Christian fundamentalists, and left early.
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #210 of 367: Sandermania (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 11:32
permalink #210 of 367: Sandermania (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 11:32
I forgot to give the name of his site. http://www.lollibomb.com If you got nothing else from this interview, you got this. The best Flash designer in the world wide whole.
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #211 of 367: Geno... (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 11:56
permalink #211 of 367: Geno... (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 11:56
...is certainly not a fiction of the imagination (whatever JesusSF may be, and, Carol, if you haven't already seen it, you might look at my interview with him http://www.cybergypsies.com/geno-jesus.html). Geno hasn't been on, ever since I asked him to take over as interviewer, at least not after those first perceptive questions, and it occured to me that his WELL guest account might have been canned, so I called his mobile. He was out driving his taxi, somewhere in Oklahoma City, said he was aching all over with a bad case of flu and couldn't talk long, because he had to help unload an old lady's groceries.
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #212 of 367: But... (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 12:00
permalink #212 of 367: But... (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 12:00
he'll be back.
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #213 of 367: Oh and another thing... (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 12:14
permalink #213 of 367: Oh and another thing... (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 12:14
...Magnus a "creature"? You are talking about a man who has had dinner with the King of Sweden.
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #214 of 367: Yet Another Creature (magnus) Thu 4 Nov 99 12:26
permalink #214 of 367: Yet Another Creature (magnus) Thu 4 Nov 99 12:26
Re: #205. Yes, Carol, the book is not fiction. We're for real! And of course, sitting on that mountaintop in Cumbria, hooked up to the net through my cell phone, I didn't know that Indra was going to write about it...So now he's gonna get it... Re: #210 Sander rules. Re: #213 Yes, of course. Sweden is now officially the No1 Internet country, so the King wants to be updated by us cybergypsies. On that dinner not, why don't we celebrate this conference with a great party? I'm up for a Ruby, Indra!
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #215 of 367: Yet Another Character (magnus) Thu 4 Nov 99 12:27
permalink #215 of 367: Yet Another Character (magnus) Thu 4 Nov 99 12:27
Oh, sorry: 'dinner note'...
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #216 of 367: Cynthia Dyer-Bennet (cdb) Thu 4 Nov 99 13:38
permalink #216 of 367: Cynthia Dyer-Bennet (cdb) Thu 4 Nov 99 13:38
heh, for a group of cyberplayers, you sure are literal. I seriously doubt Carol thought anybody *really* was a mountainman. If you can play with words, if you can play with merging online with RL until all the edges blur, I'm kind of surprised that the positive feedback and *understanding* of what you've been doing isn't supremely apparent in Carol's post. It is to me, anyway. Looks to me like she paid a great compliment to this raucous and sometimes quite disjointed discussion.
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #217 of 367: Cynthia (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 16:23
permalink #217 of 367: Cynthia (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 16:23
Oh I reckon we got it.
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #218 of 367: Hej Magnus (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 16:24
permalink #218 of 367: Hej Magnus (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 16:24
Hey Magnus, you Swedish lunkhead, did you get it?
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #219 of 367: Yet Another Character (magnus) Thu 4 Nov 99 16:37
permalink #219 of 367: Yet Another Character (magnus) Thu 4 Nov 99 16:37
Oh, actually I got it...despite my nationality. I thought that was kind of apperent in my take on the mountain and the take on you, Indra. But, as always, irony can be misinterpreted. So better stay away from that from now on. Also, Carol is a bit of a 'mountain woman' herself. At least in the outdoors kind of sense, isn't that right? Nice to hear your views, Carol. You should try Sweden sometime for mountains or for biking.
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #220 of 367: Re: Getting it (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 16:53
permalink #220 of 367: Re: Getting it (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 16:53
Word seems to have reached George Smith at the Crypt Newsletter about the raucousness of this conference because he emailed me to say: "Actually I'm surprised that you've gone on as long as you have. Shows they're more tolerant than I gave them credit for. I wouldn't have thought the WELL was a good fit for you..." George's review of Cybergypsies is at http://www.cybergypsies.com/cryptreview.html ... Alternatively visit http://www.soci.niu.edu/~crypt (wonderfully funny perspective from the underground) George's favourite bit of the book was this: Kissimmee, oh Kissimmee quick, you are quite amazing. Forget cyberspace. The Vortex has nothing on this, a fantasy eleven miles long with every possible escape from reality. Arabian Nights. Medieval Times. At Fort Liberty, a cowboy castle, we are served by a lad dressed like a trooper from Custer's Last Stand. Eve and the children adore the Congo River crazy golf courses which resemble meerkat colonies, complete with baked clay termitecture and blue cascades. We are thrilled by the drive-in burger joints. We eat at Basil's Gourmet Dinning (sic) which promises the hatest of hat European cuisine, but serves tough game smothered in cream and cranberry sauce -- maybe Basil is Transylvanian. Each night on the television, smiling people promote bizarre products. Eve is much taken with a device which looks like a giant hamster cage. "Bear, I must have one. It dries fruit and it's obviously a huge breakthrough because there's an entire TV programme about it." This is the life. England is so dull by comparison. The only thing missing here, its absence supplying the perfect finishing touch, is the tiniest trace of irony. All this and Walt Disney World too. In a caf on Main Street USA, we see a video of WDW's manager, a ferociously sincere fellow who says, "I never forget that my boss is Mickey Mouse." 'O o o' says the bird. 'Yes,' says Lilith, 'we are all refugees from reality.'
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #221 of 367: Message for Sathyu (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 17:32
permalink #221 of 367: Message for Sathyu (indra) Thu 4 Nov 99 17:32
Sathyu, if you come on here in the next few hours (it's already 7am in Bhopal), there are three things I think you should mention. One, what some of the children are enduring, those who can't play games and have never known a day without pain. Two, the state of the factory, left full of toxic chemicals, and the continuing contamination of ground and water. Three, the menstrual chaos in young girls who were babies or in the womb fifteen years ago. (I have talked to Becky and am sending the laptop with her. She told me Tim has reached the Turkey-Iran border.) hug, Indra
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #222 of 367: Gail Williams (gail) Thu 4 Nov 99 17:37
permalink #222 of 367: Gail Williams (gail) Thu 4 Nov 99 17:37
I contacted the Pesticides Action folks earlier today and got this reply: > >Please post to the Well list to tell people that they should mail us at: > >PAN >49 Powell St. >SF, CA 94102 > >Donations can also be made online: >http://www.panna.org/panna/howHelp/financial.html > >In either case, the donor must specify that the donation is for the clinic. > >Thanks! > >Skip
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #223 of 367: Jesus Slut Fucker (jesuschrist) Thu 4 Nov 99 20:04
permalink #223 of 367: Jesus Slut Fucker (jesuschrist) Thu 4 Nov 99 20:04
Indra and all: Gee gone a little while and everyone decides to post. Looks like I missed most of the fun. Not very many people know this, but toward the end of writing the book Indra got writers block and could not go on. He came across a post of mine concerning the Lone Star Brewery located in Madill Oklahoma. It concerned a border dispute Oklahoma had with Texas after the first world war that caused Madill Texas to become Madill Oklahoma. This made the Lone Star Brewery (Lone Star is the official beer of Texas) located in Oklahoma. To make a long story short, Madill has a sign you see when entering town that says, "...Pissing in Texas's Beer for over 30 Years!" I told Indra about this and how the locals said that when one year they ceased pissing in the beer (some liberal convinced them that Texans were actually people) that Texas started complaining that it did not taste right (Lone Star). Anyway, Indra came to Oklahoma and we went and toured the Madill Brewery. They even let Indra piss in a bottle or two (after a on-site Texan tasted his urine). It relieved Indra writers block and he was able to finish the book. I highly recommend pissing in Lone Star to relieve writers block. Indra, continuing the interview: Did the Dalai Lama ever figure out that you used the "sacred relics" on that rather strange girl you picked up? -Jesus
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #224 of 367: Lone Star (indra) Fri 5 Nov 99 00:21
permalink #224 of 367: Lone Star (indra) Fri 5 Nov 99 00:21
Hey Geno, you know I can't remember whether I put the Lone Star story into the book or not. It was in, originally, but I've been looking all through a copy of the bloody thing, and I can't find it. Doesn't help that it is written in 151 bits which range from about six pages to four lines long, apparently in no particular order--I say apparently, because I spent months arranging the pieces, like poor Calypso trying to piece her torn-up poem together--but there is no index or contents, so even I get totally lost in the mazes and morasses of the thing.
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Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #225 of 367: "Animula": poem, glyph, clue (indra) Fri 5 Nov 99 00:40
permalink #225 of 367: "Animula": poem, glyph, clue (indra) Fri 5 Nov 99 00:40
Light things, that never you ar seasons move, ks in the and the north meets their grafts take in ro in fallen leaves: Here I come now, ignorant of own mind e next. tables, the you had the songs would br you are mineral i rain in long division know their wits of a bird, from one minute to th forage in chin eak from the dark h n a mothÕs wing the wind or plunder se Place; hawthorn e swift and the sump of a from f this time I air in the bone, willow. lark: in you the elder flower to berry, was teaching you the westron goldfinches along Ro flower in city wall; tted wood, And all o the earthÕs of frost, wind. heart in my boots, your for mal and clay. aulm my anything beyond the ache of mam Roger Garfitt
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