Inkwell: Authors and Artists
Topic 520: Kevin Driscoll: The Modem World: A Prehistory of Social Media
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Kevin Driscoll: The Modem World: A Prehistory of Social Media
permalink #176 of 227: Hanna Kovenock (hakoven0) Wed 13 Jul 22 19:04
permalink #176 of 227: Hanna Kovenock (hakoven0) Wed 13 Jul 22 19:04
My first memories of the internet were setting up an email address at my friends house when I was 11 and later joining aol messaging. When I was in junior high or early high school teachers made it very clear that Wikipedia was not to be used as a source on papers. I joined Facebook when it became available to high schoolers. By the time I graduated highschool YouTube was off and running. Though I spent a lot of time with computers as a kid, I didnt know much about the internet early on. All I knew was that certain boys in my class could talk to each other amongst the school computer network during lab time, and that they generally knew more about how to dig around online. Sometimes a friend would tell you about a random funny or amusing webpage to look into. I still have a postcard from Utah sent by someone on an email chain. Those used to be very common when I was a kid. I joined the well a couple years ago to detoxify my brain from social media addiction and slog. It might be working, though I do fill a lot of the time that I would be inclined to be on social media (cuz most people my age and younger are on social media) here on the well. Which makes me a little bit of an outlier I guess.
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Kevin Driscoll: The Modem World: A Prehistory of Social Media
permalink #177 of 227: Kevin Driscoll (driscoll) Wed 13 Jul 22 21:07
permalink #177 of 227: Kevin Driscoll (driscoll) Wed 13 Jul 22 21:07
Yow. Paydirt! When was the last time you included your snail mail address in your signature? Also, the first Fido/USENET crosspost being an "ad" reminded me of another book recommendation. _Spam: A Shadow History of the Internet_ by Finn Brunton is a fascinating book looking at how the problem of unwanted communication shapes networks and communities over time. <https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/spam>
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Kevin Driscoll: The Modem World: A Prehistory of Social Media
permalink #178 of 227: Inkwell Co-host (jonl) Thu 14 Jul 22 06:11
permalink #178 of 227: Inkwell Co-host (jonl) Thu 14 Jul 22 06:11
Hanna's post raises a question: my recollection was that the BBSverse was mostly male energy. How many sysops were women?
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Kevin Driscoll: The Modem World: A Prehistory of Social Media
permalink #179 of 227: Ari Davidow (ari) Thu 14 Jul 22 06:44
permalink #179 of 227: Ari Davidow (ari) Thu 14 Jul 22 06:44
The only one I remember is Stacy Horn, who founded "Echo" (do I have that right?) in NYC. That was a more well-like system than the average BBS.
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Kevin Driscoll: The Modem World: A Prehistory of Social Media
permalink #180 of 227: Inkwell Co-host (jonl) Thu 14 Jul 22 07:03
permalink #180 of 227: Inkwell Co-host (jonl) Thu 14 Jul 22 07:03
I was thinking about <stacy> when I posted <178>... and she was the only example I could think of.
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Kevin Driscoll: The Modem World: A Prehistory of Social Media
permalink #181 of 227: Craig Maudlin (clm) Thu 14 Jul 22 09:11
permalink #181 of 227: Craig Maudlin (clm) Thu 14 Jul 22 09:11
in <179>: speaking of Echo, in NYC: > That was a more well-like system than the > average BBS. True, as I recall. And raises some related question: How often in the early BBS days was the 'sysop function' actually performed by a single individual? Thinking that 'sysop' of a given system encompasses: 1. Legal ownership: of both physical and intellectual property; general administration. 2. Hardware related tasks: dev and admin 3. Software related tasks: dev and admin 4. Community related tasks: dev and admin (?) -- and 'community' quickly extended beyond the single BBS 5. Business related tasks: dev and admin (?) (does this subsume 1. above?) -- for example, a multi-line BBS transitioning into being an early ISP When multiple individuals were involved, perhaps only one would tend to be seen as "the sysom" to the outside world. Other individuals with vital roles might not be so visible (as is the case still today).
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Kevin Driscoll: The Modem World: A Prehistory of Social Media
permalink #182 of 227: Inkwell Co-host (jonl) Thu 14 Jul 22 09:53
permalink #182 of 227: Inkwell Co-host (jonl) Thu 14 Jul 22 09:53
It would depend in part on scale - a relatively small BBS with a few users is easily managed by one person. But a larger system like the WELL, with a wealth of robust conversations, needs more - we have a couple of hosts for each of our conferences, and we have a management team. And we have somebody who understands and manages the technology.
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Kevin Driscoll: The Modem World: A Prehistory of Social Media
permalink #183 of 227: Hoover Chan (hchan) Thu 14 Jul 22 15:25
permalink #183 of 227: Hoover Chan (hchan) Thu 14 Jul 22 15:25
If it wasn't clear already, add my thanks for the book and this topic here. Hving been active here, on Usenet, FidoNet (I still remember one of the earliest inter regional conferences there being a politics conference shared between San Francisco and Plano Texas. What a tinderbox that was :-). I appreciate the lessons I learned which I took with me when I started some professional networks for sientists and educators which are still active.
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Kevin Driscoll: The Modem World: A Prehistory of Social Media
permalink #184 of 227: Craig Maudlin (clm) Thu 14 Jul 22 15:32
permalink #184 of 227: Craig Maudlin (clm) Thu 14 Jul 22 15:32
(Hoover just slipped in) re <182>: Makes sense. But I'm realizing that there's also a kind of informality that can occur at the individual end of the scale. How many sysops actually bought their BBS hardware using 'pooled' resources? Like with friends who shared an interest in having a BBS, but cost is more than any one is willing to shoulder. And how many such situations are documented so we could discover them today. The first computer I 'owned' was in partnership. $5K for a used PDP-11/05 in the early 70's -- the partner had already scrounged an ASR-33 w/ paper-tape reader/punch. So we were in 'business' -- but also young enough that our agreements were not formalized for several years. (They sat in the 'shared-memory' part of each of our heads.) If this sort of informality happened with any frequency with BBSs, then there might be lots of credit for making things happen that's been lost. Another way the picture is distorted by time.
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Kevin Driscoll: The Modem World: A Prehistory of Social Media
permalink #185 of 227: masked and ready! (jet) Thu 14 Jul 22 18:12
permalink #185 of 227: masked and ready! (jet) Thu 14 Jul 22 18:12
Small sample set, but I think almost all of the BBSes I used in the late 80s in Houston were run by a single person. Area code 713 was physically very large. All of Houston, most of the suburbs, even NASA JSC, a 45 min drive away from Houston (the City of). In my next post I'll hide a list of Houston BBSes posted to tx.general on 23 Aug, 1988.
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Kevin Driscoll: The Modem World: A Prehistory of Social Media
permalink #186 of 227: masked and ready! (jet) Thu 14 Jul 22 18:13
permalink #186 of 227: masked and ready! (jet) Thu 14 Jul 22 18:13
<hidden>
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Kevin Driscoll: The Modem World: A Prehistory of Social Media
permalink #187 of 227: masked and ready! (jet) Thu 14 Jul 22 18:13
permalink #187 of 227: masked and ready! (jet) Thu 14 Jul 22 18:13
Wow, reading that, I forgot how many FIDO-like networks we had in Houston.
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Kevin Driscoll: The Modem World: A Prehistory of Social Media
permalink #188 of 227: Jim Rutt (memetic) Fri 15 Jul 22 08:01
permalink #188 of 227: Jim Rutt (memetic) Fri 15 Jul 22 08:01
In that epoch, I belonged to Echo, which ran Caucus, a Pico inspired (but worse) commercial conference package. I also belonged to the Utne Reader community service which ran as I recall <bryan>'s Motet system.
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Kevin Driscoll: The Modem World: A Prehistory of Social Media
permalink #189 of 227: Jim Rutt (memetic) Fri 15 Jul 22 08:02
permalink #189 of 227: Jim Rutt (memetic) Fri 15 Jul 22 08:02
While covering a bit later period (1993 onwards) this animation of top web sites is quite amazing: https://mobile.twitter.com/vitaliyk/status/1546818443826999296
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Kevin Driscoll: The Modem World: A Prehistory of Social Media
permalink #190 of 227: Craig Maudlin (clm) Sat 16 Jul 22 14:07
permalink #190 of 227: Craig Maudlin (clm) Sat 16 Jul 22 14:07
Great to watch the ebb and flow -- but also to consider all the background events that were driving those numbers. Oh, and then thinking about the measurement issues -- what exactly is being measured here? Google dominates in the end (today), but how many of today's google competitors do what google did and collect all their services under the umbrella of a single domain name? (Or *nearly* all, since Youtube is shown distinct.) It would be great to see something similar for the various categories we've been discussing in this inkwell topic: 1. Growth in the number of BBSs. 2. Growth in various measures of BBS traffic: logins, user-time, posting volumes, inter-node telephone traffic (calls, duration, total bytes transferred). 3. ARPANET traffic measures 4. USNET traffic 5. Timesharing usage and traffic. 6. Business data transmission traffic via: the telepnone networks, commercial business networks (packet-switched vs not). 7. Emergence and growth of the Internet itself: traffic and usage -- especially different types of traffic: recall when file-sharing seemed to accounted for a majority of the Internet usage? The growth of streaming networks. Chat vs email vs video conferencing. 8. Datacenter traffic as "The Cloud" became real and evolved: the transition from 'on-premises' to various degrees of 'hybrid- cloud.' 9. The rise of content delivery networks and "edge computing." 10. Sensor networks and AI. And through the decades, how much of all this was in service of human- to-human contact? And how much of what's invisible to us today is also still aiming to satisfy that same longing?
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Kevin Driscoll: The Modem World: A Prehistory of Social Media
permalink #191 of 227: Administrivia (jonl) Sat 16 Jul 22 14:16
permalink #191 of 227: Administrivia (jonl) Sat 16 Jul 22 14:16
We're scheduled to formally end this discussion on Tuesday, but Kevin is a member of the WELL, and I'm pretty sure he'll be around to continue. So we can continue indefinitely. I do want to thank Kevin and Yale University Press, Tom Jennings, Tim Pozar, and everyone who agreed to read the book and join the conversation.
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Kevin Driscoll: The Modem World: A Prehistory of Social Media
permalink #192 of 227: masked and ready! (jet) Sat 16 Jul 22 19:42
permalink #192 of 227: masked and ready! (jet) Sat 16 Jul 22 19:42
This is a wonderful discussion. I'm trying to think of how I can explain this to my 20-year-old interaction design students.
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Kevin Driscoll: The Modem World: A Prehistory of Social Media
permalink #193 of 227: Kevin Driscoll (driscoll) Sun 17 Jul 22 19:43
permalink #193 of 227: Kevin Driscoll (driscoll) Sun 17 Jul 22 19:43
<jet> I would love to chat more about opening up this history for your students. At UVA, I teach a media studies elective called "Comparative Histories of the Internet" that follows in the spirit of the discussion here. I'm happy to share the latest syllabus, if it would be helpful. I'm especially interested in hands-on activities like taking a "field trip" into a MUD, running a Minitel emulator, and building geocities-style homepages. I imagine some of these projects could be adapted to interaction design with a little tweaking.
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Kevin Driscoll: The Modem World: A Prehistory of Social Media
permalink #194 of 227: masked and ready! (jet) Sun 17 Jul 22 19:49
permalink #194 of 227: masked and ready! (jet) Sun 17 Jul 22 19:49
Wonderful! My work email address is jet circle-a functionalprototype.com. I'm Adjunct so my cmu.edu account comes and goes "like the wind, baby". Most of what I teach is physical computing/interaction but every year I suggest some new electives. I wonder if I could dumb-down an IRC server and make it feel like 300 baud. Minitel! I just remembered that I was on the Minitel-for-the-US beta team in Houston. It was so, so strange. I can't remember if I had an Amiga or the 3b1 at the time, but it was worse than using the VT-100 clone the uni let me take home. People who had computers and modems had a much better experience than Minitel users. People who didn't? "What's the point of this tiny TV with a keyboard that doesn't do anything""
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Kevin Driscoll: The Modem World: A Prehistory of Social Media
permalink #195 of 227: Kevin Driscoll (driscoll) Sun 17 Jul 22 20:17
permalink #195 of 227: Kevin Driscoll (driscoll) Sun 17 Jul 22 20:17
No kidding! As an avowed minitel-o-phile, I'm fascinated by the various US videotex experiments. A few years ago, Julien Mailland wrote an excellent paper about France Telecom's effort to build a Minitel-like platform in the Bay Area. - Julien Mailland. "101 Online: History of the American Minitel Network and Lessons from Its Failure." IEEE Annals of the History of Computing, 2015. <https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2641921> And thanks in part to Julien's curiosity, we can now watch this video of a rave in Oakland circa 1992 with people are tapping away on Minitel terminals while hardcore techno blasts in the background: - "Le Minitel en test dans une rave party en 1992", <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1r_a-V0uEQ> For more background on the rave (including awesomely trippy flyers!), see: <https://mixmastermassey.typepad.com/mixmaster-massey/2010/04/the-woopy-ball-ma rch-6th-7th-and-8th-1992.html> Without spoiling the surprise, I'll just say that there may be some familiar faces from around the WELL... ;-)
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Kevin Driscoll: The Modem World: A Prehistory of Social Media
permalink #196 of 227: Kevin Driscoll (driscoll) Sun 17 Jul 22 20:32
permalink #196 of 227: Kevin Driscoll (driscoll) Sun 17 Jul 22 20:32
As we approach the official end of this discussion, I want to shout out other books that dig into the origins of the net. Here are a few of my recent faves to kick it off: Megan Sapnar Ankerson. Dot-Com Design: The Rise of a Usable, Social, Commercial Web. 2018. <https://nyupress.org/9781479892907/dot-com-design/> Shaohua Guo. The Evolution of the Chinese Internet: Creative Visibility in the Digital Public. 2020. <https://www.sup.org/books/title/?id=32857> Charlton D. McIlwain. Black Software: The Internet & Racial Justice, from the AfroNet to Black Lives Matter. 2019. <https://global.oup.com/academic/product/black-software-9780190863845> Julien Mailland and Kevin Driscoll. Minitel: Welcome to the Internet. 2017. <https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/minitel> Eden Medina. Cybernetic Revolutionaries: Technology and Politics in Allendes Chile. 2011. <https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/cybernetic-revolutionaries> Benjamin Peters. How Not to Network a Nation: The Uneasy History of the Soviet Internet. 2016. <https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/how-not-network-nation> Joy Lisi Rankin. A Peoples History of Computing in the United States. 2018. <https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674970977> (And as <jonl> suggested, I'll be around! Happy to keep the conversation going.)
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Kevin Driscoll: The Modem World: A Prehistory of Social Media
permalink #197 of 227: David Gans (tnf) Mon 18 Jul 22 08:57
permalink #197 of 227: David Gans (tnf) Mon 18 Jul 22 08:57
Didn't <tex> work for Minitel?
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Kevin Driscoll: The Modem World: A Prehistory of Social Media
permalink #198 of 227: those Andropovian bongs (rik) Mon 18 Jul 22 08:59
permalink #198 of 227: those Andropovian bongs (rik) Mon 18 Jul 22 08:59
Yeah. I even had one of those for a while. Never proved itself useful.
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Kevin Driscoll: The Modem World: A Prehistory of Social Media
permalink #199 of 227: masked and ready! (jet) Mon 18 Jul 22 18:49
permalink #199 of 227: masked and ready! (jet) Mon 18 Jul 22 18:49
I had one in the late 80s in Houston, must have been a different failed attempt. Dial back to, say, the 1970s and make this how you get to the phone book and deal with government offices and it would have been genius.
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Kevin Driscoll: The Modem World: A Prehistory of Social Media
permalink #200 of 227: Tiffany Lee Brown (T) (magdalen) Mon 18 Jul 22 19:47
permalink #200 of 227: Tiffany Lee Brown (T) (magdalen) Mon 18 Jul 22 19:47
great conversation. thanks, jon & kevin & everyone!
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