Inkwell: Authors and Artists
Topic 524: John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
inkwell.vue.524
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John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #126 of 141: John Markoff (johnm) Wed 1 Feb 23 13:42
permalink #126 of 141: John Markoff (johnm) Wed 1 Feb 23 13:42
<121> Not being a physicist I will defer to you. (of course Sam Altman bet 1/3 of a billion dollars that they would figure the fusion thing out) :)
inkwell.vue.524
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John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #127 of 141: Virtual Sea Monkey (karish) Wed 1 Feb 23 14:03
permalink #127 of 141: Virtual Sea Monkey (karish) Wed 1 Feb 23 14:03
I'm not a physicist either. I've been following the subject for decades.
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John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #128 of 141: Inkwell Host (jonl) Wed 1 Feb 23 14:06
permalink #128 of 141: Inkwell Host (jonl) Wed 1 Feb 23 14:06
My understanding from Mitch Kapor and John Barlow was that they met on the WELL and started brainstorming EFF here. This followed a 1989 discussion on computers and privacy that happened on the WELL and was edited and published in Harper's magazine. It included a couple of young hackers, Phiber Optik and Acid Phreak. This apparently got Barlow thinking about technology policy and how it would likely be created by people who don't understand the technology they're presuming to regulate. There was the potential for law enforcement to confuse a prank with a more serious crime. EFF would promote understanding of Internet and related technologies and lobby for well-informed policy development.
inkwell.vue.524
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John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #129 of 141: Inkwell Host (jonl) Wed 1 Feb 23 14:08
permalink #129 of 141: Inkwell Host (jonl) Wed 1 Feb 23 14:08
(We might be drifting off-topic, unless we consider any discussion of the WELL relevant to the discussion of John's book and its subject, Stewart Brand.)
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John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #130 of 141: Axon (axon) Wed 1 Feb 23 15:31
permalink #130 of 141: Axon (axon) Wed 1 Feb 23 15:31
>My understanding from Mitch Kapor and John Barlow was that they met on the WELL and started brainstorming EFF here. That was Barlow's story, certainly, replete with the deathless phrase "blind as cave fish".
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John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #131 of 141: Tom Valovic (tvacorn) Thu 2 Feb 23 08:34
permalink #131 of 141: Tom Valovic (tvacorn) Thu 2 Feb 23 08:34
John thanks for your comments about the Turner book earlier. I havent read the Dormouse book but Im putting it on the list. I do have another question. On page 355, you write about Brands interest in terraforming. However, unless I missed it, theres not a lot of discussion in your book about exactly what his vision of terraforming would entail other than the statement that we need to do it well. Can you expand on this a bit?
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John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #132 of 141: John Markoff (johnm) Thu 2 Feb 23 16:24
permalink #132 of 141: John Markoff (johnm) Thu 2 Feb 23 16:24
Before trying to grapple with <131> I have to confess I just stumbled on this quote from Hunter Thompson. No topic drift here, I would argue San Francisco in the middle sixties was a very special time and place to be a part of. Maybe it meant something. Maybe not, in the long run but no explanation, no mix of words or music or memories can touch that sense of knowing that you were there and alive in that corner of time and the world. Whatever it meant There was madness in any direction, at any hour. If not across the Bay, then up the Golden Gate or down 101 to Los Altos or La Honda. You could strike sparks anywhere. There was a fantastic universal sense that whatever we were doing was right, that we were winning And that, I think, was the handlethat sense of inevitable victory over the forces of Old and Evil. Not in any mean or military sense; we didnt need that. Our energy would simply prevail. There was no point in fightingon our side or theirs. We had all the momentum; we were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look West, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water markthat place where the wave finally broke and rolled back. Hunter S. Thompson Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas (1971)
inkwell.vue.524
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John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #133 of 141: John Markoff (johnm) Thu 2 Feb 23 16:37
permalink #133 of 141: John Markoff (johnm) Thu 2 Feb 23 16:37
<131> On terraforming, I think that Stewart has been pretty consistent on this all the way through. He realized early on that American Indians saw themselves as stewards of the land they lived on. He had taken the Outdoor Life Pledge and he addresses terraforming specifically in Ecopragmaist Manifesto. On Page 19 he argues that we have been terraforming inadvertently for ten millenia, but that it has been unintentional. His We Are As Gods point is that we should get good at it. Are you asking about this in a different context?
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John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #134 of 141: Renshin Bunce (renshin) Thu 2 Feb 23 16:39
permalink #134 of 141: Renshin Bunce (renshin) Thu 2 Feb 23 16:39
That HST passage is Really impressive
inkwell.vue.524
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John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #135 of 141: Mark McDonough (mcdee) Thu 2 Feb 23 16:45
permalink #135 of 141: Mark McDonough (mcdee) Thu 2 Feb 23 16:45
Yup.
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John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #136 of 141: Kevin Driscoll (driscoll) Thu 2 Feb 23 18:26
permalink #136 of 141: Kevin Driscoll (driscoll) Thu 2 Feb 23 18:26
Thanks for this fascinating peek behind the scenes, John. Can't wait to dig into the book. I'm especially curious about how you approached the challenge of writing a biography of a living person. This seems especially tricky when the person in question has been thinking about writing their own autobiography! Were there any moments where you surprised SB with something from the archives that he'd forgotten or misremembered?
inkwell.vue.524
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John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #137 of 141: Tom Valovic (tvacorn) Fri 3 Feb 23 05:52
permalink #137 of 141: Tom Valovic (tvacorn) Fri 3 Feb 23 05:52
133: Just a quick follow-up. Would it be fair to say that Brands vision of terraforming includes large-scale genetic modification of plant and animal species? On a separate matter, an older article appearing in MIT Technology Review talks about Brands ideas about DDT. The article says: He opposes doctrinaire forms of environmentalism like the campaign to globally ban the pesticide DDTa decision that, according to malaria expert Robert Gwadz of the National Institutes of Health, contributed to the deaths of 20 million children worldwide. Do you have any sense of whether Brands thinking night have changed or evolved on this matter over the years?
inkwell.vue.524
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John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #138 of 141: John Markoff (johnm) Fri 3 Feb 23 16:10
permalink #138 of 141: John Markoff (johnm) Fri 3 Feb 23 16:10
<136> Oh My God I was bringing documents to Stewart that he either didn't remember or misremembered all the time. In his defense from a distance of a half century its hard to remember anything with precision. That said, I was super lucky as a biographer that Stewart was a packrat and simply threw everything in a shipping container on Gate 5 Rd. until the Stanford librarians arrived. I have never trusted memory, mine or any elses. I was learning the art of biography as I went along. I read a number of books, my favorite being James Atlass Shadow in the Garden and I was acutely aware of Caros turn every page dictum and having struggled through Stewarts documents with the help of Joseph Monzel, who just showed up one day and volunteered, Im skeptical that it is actually possible. I spent almost two years in the Stanford collection and Im sure I missed a lot. My favorite story from the archive: When I looked at Stewarts papers for the first time in 2000, right after they had been donated, his original journals were accessible. When I returned in 2017 they had been replaced and a poor librarian had been forced to go through the entirety of his collection with a black marker and remove all of the spicy stuff. Whats this? I asked Stewart. He had no idea, and so he asked Mike Keller, Stanfords librarian what had happened. We never got a complete answer but I suspect the black markings were there to protect Stewarts girlfriends during the 1970s. When Stewart asserted that he had nothing to hide, the journals magically came back, which was a pain in the ass because I had to read them again.
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John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #139 of 141: John Markoff (johnm) Fri 3 Feb 23 16:14
permalink #139 of 141: John Markoff (johnm) Fri 3 Feb 23 16:14
<137> He would probably quibble with the phrase "large scale," perhaps "targeted" would be more appropriate. If you look at a species that is either extinct or endangered as is the case for Revive & Restore, I imagine you could make the case for "large scale" even when only a handful of creatures remain. On the DDT issue, we discussed it in the context he argued in Ecopragmatist Manifesto, and I don't remember him backing away from his contention that the decision cost lives in aggregate.
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John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #140 of 141: Inkwell Host (jonl) Tue 7 Feb 23 13:36
permalink #140 of 141: Inkwell Host (jonl) Tue 7 Feb 23 13:36
Thanks to John Markoff, Howard Rheingold, and all who participated in this conversation. If you have anything to add, please feel free to drop by and post anytime - the formal end of the conversation was yesterday, but the topic will remain open.
inkwell.vue.524
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John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #141 of 141: Tom Howard (tom) Wed 8 Feb 23 05:13
permalink #141 of 141: Tom Howard (tom) Wed 8 Feb 23 05:13
Thanks again to johnm for the book and for coming here.
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