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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #126 of 281: Axon (axon) Sun 7 Jan 24 13:47
permalink #126 of 281: Axon (axon) Sun 7 Jan 24 13:47
>the possibility that Trump will be President again It's a nonzero probability, but incalculably remote, in my judgment. Yes, certainly, if he were returned to office, it would be EOL for consensual self government. But as daunting a prospect as that is, my assessment is that there's no shot longer. This is not 2016, and we need to get over our PTSD about it. It was indeed a severe trauma, but I have no confidence in dire predictions that it might be repeated. I'm a hope fiend, and Simon Rosenberg is my dealer. He's one of a handful of analysts who called the last three general elections in defiance of the conventional wisdom, the polls, and the consensus media. I encourage the anxious (the media replays of J6 amplify the brainstem's default response to perceived threats) to consult his wisdom; it is sage. That doesn't mean the MAGA minions won't stage a full stack nutty when he loses (by three touchdowns or more in the popular), and we certainly should brace ourselves for an orgy of stochastic vandalism. But the union will stand.
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #127 of 281: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Sun 7 Jan 24 23:52
permalink #127 of 281: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Sun 7 Jan 24 23:52
Trump is the America-sized version of oligarchic ethnonationalism generally. They're not going away; they ate all the actual "conservatism" in the world and they have replaced it. If Trump died of old age tomorrow, the American right won't recover their senses and suddenly search for Dwight Eisenhower. They're gonna continue to take their cues from Viktor Orban.
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #128 of 281: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Sun 7 Jan 24 23:53
permalink #128 of 281: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Sun 7 Jan 24 23:53
They're a cultural movement financed by oligarchs. I'm surprised that ethnonationals in power don't govern better, actually. In Turin, all the grand culture heroes are ethnonationals. They're armed insurrectionist zealots who are like, "Make Italy great again, we're all really, intensely Italian, we must lace on our Roman helmets and die for the fatherland!" while the reaction of the general Italian population, who were ruled by the Austrians and Pope and so forth, was "What the hell are you dangerous cranks even talking about? Italy's just a peninsula, it's not even a country!" But due to their patriotic nationalism, and also their resentment of the foreigners, they united Italy, and Italy became a nation. They somehow governed themselves, and though the "Greatness" never quite arrived, things genuinely improved, sort of. Except in the South of Italy, but nothing ever improves in the south of Italy.
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #129 of 281: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Sun 7 Jan 24 23:57
permalink #129 of 281: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Sun 7 Jan 24 23:57
The British escaped disgusting cosmopolitan-globalization and they took-back-control, and they went straight into decline. They're a corrupt backwater. Nobody admires them, they're not considered the Mother of Parliaments any more, they're not planetary trendsetters, as they once were Their soft-power went away; British pop music bands are irrelevant, there's no British cinema, British fashions, architecture, literature, those all used to be super-interesting to watch. Now that level of vitality is too much to ask from them. I don't want to pick on the fine people of Alabama, but it's like going to Huntsville, Birmingham and Montgomery and demanding that they should out-do Paris, Berlin and Dubai. That's unfair to them in their abiding Alabama-ness. They chose that existential condition, the British. They still choose it. They're stubbornly patriotic about it. They know that it's not the way-forward now, but they're trying to see-it-through. And maybe they will. There were other historical periods where the British were very inward-looking and nobody else cared much about them. They're in one of those periods now. It's not novel or peculiar. It's long-lasting, it's how modern life is for them.
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #130 of 281: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Sun 7 Jan 24 23:58
permalink #130 of 281: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Sun 7 Jan 24 23:58
I'd like to be more interested in the British, and I do try, because I was quite the Anglophile during much of my lifespan, but they're just too boring. They've been Brexiting ever since 2013. That's not any kind of dazzling polycrisis, they're gonna be Brexiting all year this year, too. It'll be more slow-motion politcal-and-econmic train crash, trending downward toward, I dunno, oligarch-privatized rusty bus-crash. The same general thing, over and over, only they're feebler about it and it feels worse. It's tedious even to talk about it. One feels the vague urge to apologize for even bringing them up as a subject for discussion.
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #131 of 281: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Mon 8 Jan 24 07:12
permalink #131 of 281: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Mon 8 Jan 24 07:12
In the USA, apparently half the citizens want a fascist dictatorship with a lunatic ex-game show host as dictator. The other half want to keep "democracy," whatever that might mean to them. Not that it's ever really been a democracy, with decisions by informed consensus of all the citizens. Democracy doesn't scale very well, most people aren't that well-informed, and most don't want to participate all that much. But they're good with voting to elect set of political actors to mediate their will. They like to have freedom within reason, and the whole country leans progressive in its thinking - but a minority of so-called "conservatives" heavily game the system to take power where they can, and they're pulling many of the levers at the moment. They're just interested in having power, they're not going to do anything interesting with it. They don't commit much time to the act of governing. They like to spend time snarking on social media and grifting their constituents.
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #132 of 281: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Mon 8 Jan 24 07:12
permalink #132 of 281: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Mon 8 Jan 24 07:12
If the far-right manipulators do manage to take full control of the country, or most of it, government will decline, the country will fall into disarray, the money will continue to flow into the coffers of oligarchs and, having little money left to spend, ordinary citizens will struggle to put bread on the table. Many will die, spending their last moments watching "Love Island," "Bachelor in Paradise," and "Top Chef" - their flat screens will be the last of their possessions, their only source of warmth. The flow of money into a middle class that was the backbone of a vibrant economy will be stilled, the economy will fall apart, the flow of money to the oligarchs will collapse. Over time, the USA will be increasingly anarchic, more like a banana republic than a great nation leading the world. God knows what will happen with the nukes... if Trump wins this next election, he and his pal Putin will together control most of the world's nuclear arsenal. Clear-headed Americans already suspect that Trump is in Putin's pocket, in which case this means Putin will hold all the nukes. At least he seems to realize that deploying them is counterproductive - quick incineration of the planet isn't on the agenda. However slow incineration is almost assured if they continue ignoring the climate crisis, hoping that it will simply stop. Or that we'll engineer our way out of it. Or that it was just some narrative scientists were pushing to raise money for their dubious research fantasies.
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #133 of 281: John Coate (tex) Mon 8 Jan 24 07:26
permalink #133 of 281: John Coate (tex) Mon 8 Jan 24 07:26
I hope (which is not quite the same as optimism) that people, especially younger people, show up to vote despite objections to Biden's bland oratory, age and support of Israel's actions. Sometimes it's good to remember that defense often wins championships. In Europe the rise of right wing populism has been on the rise for some time. I was part of a EU-funded study on the rise of populism in central Europe, that ended not long before Putin invaded Ukraine. I wonder if that conflict has caused some shift in either direction. On the plus side, I read recently that South America is the continent currently that has the most popular enthusiasm for democratic government. In an earlier comment Bruce said that the world feels overcrowded. It definitely is. Large-scale cooperation is the only way forward. What are the odds?
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #134 of 281: from JOHN OHNO (tnf) Mon 8 Jan 24 08:16
permalink #134 of 281: from JOHN OHNO (tnf) Mon 8 Jan 24 08:16
John Ohno writes: With regard to <100>, I have certainly heard people speak of social media in the same way they speak of cocaine or methamphetamine: as an experience that is enormously exciting, compelling, and stressful due to sheer intensity, habit-forming if you let it be, and liable to encourage you to make some very stupid decisions with a whole lot of unjustified confidence. It's telling that accelerationism is most popular among extremely-online consumers of uppers -- but world culture is increasingly a culture of coffee-drinkers if not amphetamine-users, which makes it very fertile ground for ideas whose only real merit is "they make a number go up". Culture and technology is, at scale, often downstream of diet -- and the modern global diet is the new year's day hangover energy drink black coffee and greasy breakfast sandwich. Regarding <70>, the idea that LLMs would be used to prop up cult-of- personality dictatorships is unconvincing on the grounds that a much better technology for this purpose, the expert system, was fairly well-established in the 80s & was not used for this purpose. An expert system can perform reasoning yet have its axioms set in such a way that it will never emit an ideologically-incorrect response (and indeed, the US government developed expert systems to simulate ideologies back in the 60s); LLMs, on the other hand, have a whole class of problems stemming from the need for a training corpus so large as to be impossible to quality-check (let alone ensure the exclusion of counter-revolutionary material). Now, powerful people make technical decisions based on hype all the time, including situations when any competent advisor would point out that they would regret it -- lots of this is happening around LLM and GAN technology right now -- but North Korea has survived two successions when most similarly politically centralized countries collapse before the first one, so they may well be smart enough to avoid this.
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #135 of 281: David Gans (tnf) Mon 8 Jan 24 08:17
permalink #135 of 281: David Gans (tnf) Mon 8 Jan 24 08:17
Biden't bland oratory?
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #136 of 281: Axon (axon) Mon 8 Jan 24 08:38
permalink #136 of 281: Axon (axon) Mon 8 Jan 24 08:38
>half the citizens want a fascist dictatorship Nowhere near that. It's an extinction burst. They can see the end of the demographic runway from here. >If Trump died of old age tomorrow, the American right won't recover their senses and suddenly search for Dwight Eisenhower No, but they will die off. That's why they're so frantic; they *are* being replaced. Only 51% of Zoomers in the US are melanin deficient.
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #137 of 281: Note: (jonl) Mon 8 Jan 24 09:16
permalink #137 of 281: Note: (jonl) Mon 8 Jan 24 09:16
<103> contains a broken link - translation of special characters in the url. It's the Wikipedia link for Branislav Nusic. (There are special characters in the surname that don't work on the WELL.) The link appears to work without the special characters: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Branislav_Nusic> Thanks to Shebar Windstone for pointing this out.
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #138 of 281: John Coate (tex) Mon 8 Jan 24 09:19
permalink #138 of 281: John Coate (tex) Mon 8 Jan 24 09:19
> bland oratory Many perceive it as such. I'm sort of middling about it. Good content, not a great delivery. If his oratory was at Obama's level it wouldn't even be a contest. Public speaking still matters a great deal. The demographic change is undeniable, but younger voters tend to not show up or vote for third party. And the red states have the mistakenly architected electoral college in their favor. But with the GOP going for the throat of women, minorities, LGBQT and all other vulnerable groups (in their usual chickeshit way) they had all better show up this time. (Not to send this conversation off into a US election debate per se, but it is a main event of 2024.)
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #139 of 281: Axon (axon) Mon 8 Jan 24 09:31
permalink #139 of 281: Axon (axon) Mon 8 Jan 24 09:31
>younger voters tend to not show up Look again. Not in the last three general elections, and not in the specials since Dobbs. They are a significant bloc now, and they're acting like it.
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #140 of 281: John Coate (tex) Mon 8 Jan 24 10:15
permalink #140 of 281: John Coate (tex) Mon 8 Jan 24 10:15
I hope you are right but I make no assumptions. And this Gaza problem is a big one.
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #141 of 281: Axon (axon) Mon 8 Jan 24 10:44
permalink #141 of 281: Axon (axon) Mon 8 Jan 24 10:44
>this Gaza problem is a big one I think it won't be in November, whereas abortion, guns, and climate will still loom large for the women and children silos. I'm making no assumptions, either, but Dem overperformance in actual elections is the only reliably predictive data we have to evaluate. Women are on fire and the kids are all right. Dems are shooting threes at will while the GOP shits the bed on every play. We still have a lot of lifting to do, of course; the basic blocking and tackling of political campaigning. But we have hella money, burgeoning enthusiasm, and a track record that suggests lifting won't be an obstacle. Handwringing is off brand. We took our eye off the ball in 2016, got complacent (believing the polls; never again), and let the butthurt left pick the flyshit out of the pepper re: Clinton. Those are not going to be issues this cycle. Nor will foreign policy.
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #142 of 281: Axon (axon) Mon 8 Jan 24 10:50
permalink #142 of 281: Axon (axon) Mon 8 Jan 24 10:50
(Sorry for the digression. We now return to our regularly scheduled polycrisis, already in progress.)
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #143 of 281: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Mon 8 Jan 24 11:05
permalink #143 of 281: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Mon 8 Jan 24 11:05
In a normal year, U.S. politics might have more limited relevance to global scale, but if the forces that have taken over the Republican party here have their way, there will clearly be global repercussions.
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #144 of 281: Tom Valovic (tvacorn) Mon 8 Jan 24 11:18
permalink #144 of 281: Tom Valovic (tvacorn) Mon 8 Jan 24 11:18
I think John is raising some very valid points about the ability to inspire and the lack of support from younger voters who are turned off by the US stance on the Gaza war. It also seems clear from other comments that the blind spot that was evident in the 2016 election is still there.
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #145 of 281: Axon (axon) Mon 8 Jan 24 11:56
permalink #145 of 281: Axon (axon) Mon 8 Jan 24 11:56
>the lack of support from younger voters The only indicator of which is media-commissioned polls. And as we have seen, the figures for specific silos are crosstabs from polls with already problematic MOEs. When a crosstab has only a hundred or so respondents, the MOE is 15 points either way. Polls create their own weather systems, but it rarely rains as predicted. The predictive evidence is in actual elections. And it's very encouraging. Who is actually panicking right now? It isn't the Democrats.
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #146 of 281: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Mon 8 Jan 24 12:57
permalink #146 of 281: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Mon 8 Jan 24 12:57
News media are reporting poll numbers as if they were news. Consider this recent report: "A quarter of Americans believe FBI instigated Jan. 6, Post-UMD poll finds More than 3 in 10 Republicans have adopted the falsehood that the FBI conspired to cause the Capitol riot" <https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/01/04/fbi-conspiracy-jan-6-attack -misinformation/> The actual poll, of course, found no such thing. The poll was based on 1,024 interviews that were completed, including 965 self-administered over the internet and 59 administered by professional interviewers over landline or cellular phone. What the poll tells us is that apparenlty 24% of that particular 1,024 respondents believe that the FBI conspired to cause the Capitol riot. The poll had weighting procedures etc. that would supposedly produce a result that suggests what 330+ *million* Americans of significant diversity believe. I don't think so - but there's no good way to test the proposition that the poll is "scientific" and "accurate," other than polling all Americans and comparing the result. Polls have uses, I'm sure. But they are *not news* - and should not be reported as "fact."
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #147 of 281: Axon (axon) Mon 8 Jan 24 14:08
permalink #147 of 281: Axon (axon) Mon 8 Jan 24 14:08
>they are *not news* - and should not be reported as "fact." Nor should they prompt anxiety, which is their *sole purpose*. Shake it off. >1,024 interviews Haphazard metholodogy notwithstanding, when you drill down into the crosstabs, you're down to double digits. Reporting "20% of [women, youth, African Americans, veterans, whatever] believe [consensus narrative} you're really looking at anywhere from 5% to 35% once you adjust for MOE. You get better data throwing darts blindfolded. >Polls have uses Internal surveys commissioned by campaigns have much higher sample sizes, much lower MOEs, and are designed to produce actionable intelligence on popular sentiment, not lurid headlines calculated to beguile the unwary.
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #148 of 281: Axon (axon) Mon 8 Jan 24 14:20
permalink #148 of 281: Axon (axon) Mon 8 Jan 24 14:20
>A quarter of Americans believe FBI instigated Jan. 6, Post-UMD poll And Maureen Down rehearses that same horsehit claim uncritically in her 1/6 column. Shameless. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/06/opinion/trump-biden-election.html?unlocked_ article_code=1.ME0.oSM6.zNXQfWXDpe67&smid=fb-share
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #149 of 281: Emily Gertz (emilyg) Mon 8 Jan 24 14:21
permalink #149 of 281: Emily Gertz (emilyg) Mon 8 Jan 24 14:21
Jon, I believe U.S. politics are always relevant on a global scale. World politics are no longer as essentially bipolar as they were during the Cold War, but our economic, diplomatic and military power, as well as geographic spread (via territories, military bases) still put us in a pole position.
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #150 of 281: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Mon 8 Jan 24 15:39
permalink #150 of 281: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Mon 8 Jan 24 15:39
Point taken! I published that because, in the past, I've been accused of being too US-centric.
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