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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #176 of 281: Jennifer Powell (jnfr) Tue 9 Jan 24 19:47
permalink #176 of 281: Jennifer Powell (jnfr) Tue 9 Jan 24 19:47
I find plenty to read on BSky, very little to interact with. But I really enjoy seeing the people there who used to be on Twitter. They are not friends, but still people who presence I value.
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #177 of 281: from DAVID COOTE (tnf) Tue 9 Jan 24 20:49
permalink #177 of 281: from DAVID COOTE (tnf) Tue 9 Jan 24 20:49
David Coote writes: In permalink #<170> "Write 50,000 essays on a near daily basis over 25 years" That would be 2000 essays/annum. Assuming 200 workdays/year that's 10 essays/day! Which sounds a tad high. And I've been reading these SOTWs for years. I'm finding this one quite boring. <https://people.well.com/conf/inkwell.vue/topics/540/Bruce-Sterling-and-Jon-Leb kowsky-page07.html#post170> (note: conference host added link)
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #178 of 281: Brian Slesinsky (bslesins) Tue 9 Jan 24 22:26
permalink #178 of 281: Brian Slesinsky (bslesins) Tue 9 Jan 24 22:26
An Italian programmer who goes by antirez wrote about AI in English: Translating blog posts with GPT-4, or: on hope and fear <http://antirez.com/news/141> And in Italian, then using GPT-4 to translate it into English: LLMs and Programming in the first days of 2024 <http://antirez.com/news/140> > Another point of view on the matter could be that my true voice is the one of the translated blog post, so writing in English is the real bluff here. Because the translated post is more representative of my lexical ability in my mother tongue, and not of the reduced one I can feature when writing in English. Maybe it captures more shades of what I really want to say. But then one could go deeper in arguments about what style really is. Is it more about sentence construction, and the way you put down your ideas, or is it a lot more about the vocabulary used, the exact words and adjectives selected to provide a given image and meaning? Probably both, and the two things are quite an inseparable whole. > Anyway the simple fact that now, in 2024, I finally have this choice, fulls me of hope and fear. Hope for the possibilities the humanity will have, with machines that can talk. And fear about the potential AI has to make everybody lazy, no longer willing to do things as hard as learning a new language.
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #179 of 281: Brian Slesinsky (bslesins) Tue 9 Jan 24 22:29
permalink #179 of 281: Brian Slesinsky (bslesins) Tue 9 Jan 24 22:29
(The quote is from the first linked post, written in English.)
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #180 of 281: Brian Slesinsky (bslesins) Tue 9 Jan 24 22:38
permalink #180 of 281: Brian Slesinsky (bslesins) Tue 9 Jan 24 22:38
And here is a quote from the second linked post, written in Italian and translated: > It's true: LLMs are capable, at most, of rudimentary reasoning, often inaccurate, many times peppered with hallucinations about non-existent facts. But they have a vast knowledge. In the field of programming, as well as in other fields for which quality data are available, LLMs are like stupid savants who know a lot of things. It would be terrible to do pair programming with such a partner (for me, pair programming is terrible even in the most general terms): they would have nonsensical ideas and we would have to continuously fight to impose our own. But if this erudite fool is at our disposal and answers all the questions asked of them, things change. Current LLMs will not take us beyond the paths of knowledge, but if we want to tackle a topic we do not know well, they can often lift us from our absolute ignorance to the point where we know enough to move forward on our own. > In the field of programming, perhaps their ability would have been of very little interest up to twenty or thirty years ago. Back then you had to know a couple of programming languages, the classic algorithms, and those ten fundamental libraries. The rest you had to add yourself, your own intelligence, expertise, design skills. If you had these ingredients you were an expert programmer, able to do more or less everything. Over time, we have witnessed an explosion of frameworks, programming languages, libraries of all kinds. An explosion of complexity often completely unnecessary and unjustified, but the truth is that things are what they are. And in such a context, an idiot who knows everything is a precious ally. > Let me give you an example [ ]
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #181 of 281: Brian Slesinsky (bslesins) Tue 9 Jan 24 23:04
permalink #181 of 281: Brian Slesinsky (bslesins) Tue 9 Jan 24 23:04
As a programmer (retired) Ive dabbled a bit and had a similar experience myself. Heres a Python notebook implementing a bouncing ball animation, using Python APIs that I didnt know at the time. <https://github.com/skybrian/boing_ball_animation> Ironically for a field called machine learning, a frustration when using these tools is that the chatbot cant learn from experience in any permanent way. In the next chat, its going to make the same dumb mistakes that it made last time. (Until the vendor releases a new version.) A co-worker would learn from practice, but not the machine. When you know very little about a subject, you start out thinking its quite helpful, but as you learn more, it becomes less useful, and then a hinderance. But there are always more things to learn.
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #182 of 281: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Wed 10 Jan 24 04:54
permalink #182 of 281: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Wed 10 Jan 24 04:54
I happened to return to the Spanish kitchen-supply store that I mentioned earlier (post #114), where they sell that dieselpunk glassware which mimics the Roaring 1920s but is actually sold here in the enshittified 2020s. With a closer look, I discovered that this crystalware is actually "Made in Italy,"and then it's shipped to Spain so that both the Spanish and Italians can mock the Prohibition ambitions of the Americans. And it's better than that: the "new America '20s collection" is described on the carton in seven different European languages, so that practically everyone in Europe can laugh at the very concept of legislated sobriety. That discovery tipped me over. I just bought half a dozen of those glasses.
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #183 of 281: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Wed 10 Jan 24 04:58
permalink #183 of 281: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Wed 10 Jan 24 04:58
Pics or it didn't happen. This is not an Erskine Gwynne "Bopulevardier," but it is an Ernest Hemingway "Hemingway Daiquiri," and since Hemingway used to write for Erskine Gwynne, it's very period-appropriate. https://flic.kr/p/2pryfrc It's also made with some Hemingway-centric Cuban rum, which is sternly prohibited in the USA but as common as lime juice here in Ibiza.
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #184 of 281: Tom Valovic (tvacorn) Wed 10 Jan 24 06:28
permalink #184 of 281: Tom Valovic (tvacorn) Wed 10 Jan 24 06:28
Back to the quality of online experience. I think an interesting question in this context is: why are Google and other major search engines now curtailing their search results?
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #185 of 281: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Wed 10 Jan 24 06:48
permalink #185 of 281: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Wed 10 Jan 24 06:48
Can you day more? What do you mean by "curtailing"?
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #186 of 281: Tom Valovic (tvacorn) Wed 10 Jan 24 07:31
permalink #186 of 281: Tom Valovic (tvacorn) Wed 10 Jan 24 07:31
Fewer pages of results among other things. Less reach into past articles and references.
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #187 of 281: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Wed 10 Jan 24 07:38
permalink #187 of 281: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Wed 10 Jan 24 07:38
This might be at least a partial explanation: <https://searchengineland.com/google-expect-more-simplification-of-search-resul ts-432305> "One of the three key points of emphasis in [Gary] Illyes' keynote was that Google has been removing SERP features that Google users didn't use or find useful. That include the change to video thumbnails in April and then the recent removal of HowTo rich results and heavily reduced visibility of FAQ rich results." This piece discusses how Google's search results have been changing, including an AI result at the top of the SERP: <https://searchengineland.com/new-google-search-generative-ai-experience-413533 >
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #188 of 281: Tom Valovic (tvacorn) Wed 10 Jan 24 07:55
permalink #188 of 281: Tom Valovic (tvacorn) Wed 10 Jan 24 07:55
An explanation maybe. But the quality and utility have clearly declined. Theres also been increasing manipulation of which results show. For example, the left-wing publications Common Dreams, AlterNet, and Counterpunch have all had serious problems with either search or social media access.
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #189 of 281: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Wed 10 Jan 24 08:18
permalink #189 of 281: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Wed 10 Jan 24 08:18
Can you link research with more detail about these phenomena? I'm not sure how to interpret what might be happening without more detail about what the studies are actually reporting. Search algorithms are always changing, sometimes with devastating results for some entities. I recall when medical sites experience substantial loss of traffic after a change to the Google algorithm a few years ago. I recently started using DuckDuckGo, and find results there pretty clean and straightforward.
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #190 of 281: Tom Valovic (tvacorn) Wed 10 Jan 24 08:26
permalink #190 of 281: Tom Valovic (tvacorn) Wed 10 Jan 24 08:26
Interesting. I should be clear that the two things I mentioned in <188> are two separate issues.
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #191 of 281: Brian Slesinsky (bslesins) Wed 10 Jan 24 08:50
permalink #191 of 281: Brian Slesinsky (bslesins) Wed 10 Jan 24 08:50
Seems like theres more interest in alternative search engines than there has been in a while. Its unclear if any are better. Fans make claims. There are reviews, but the ones Ive seen seem pretty lacking in methodology. And anyway, everyone searches for different things, so you have to evaluate it for yourself, and thats a drag. Easier to stick with habit. AI chatbots have the same problem. There are dozens of these things, more being announced all the time, and it would take genuine curiosity and serious commitment to try them all. And how do you evaluate them? There is no good IQ test for bots. Sure, you can test them, but they are idiot savants whose flaws arent easily summarized in a single number, or even a few dimensions. There are lots of papers and lots of benchmarks, but the benchmarks results dont seem so meaningful for everything tools like search engines and chatbots. (Machine learning researchers have fun trying to beat each other on benchmarks, though!) Sometimes I wonder if Google has lost its way because the evaluation problem has finally done them in. They have an army of human evaluators, but theyre just ordinary people who can be fooled. Do they struggle to tell good search results from bad? You cant tell by a glance anymore, particularly in areas outside your expertise. Im relying on social proof, hoping that other people will try things and there will be buzz about anything particularly promising. Until then, I use GPT-4 and Google. Its what Im used to. Relying on buzz is pretty terrible too. Take human evaluation by biased partisans who probably believe a few conspiracy theories, and then run through social media algorithms. But its the lazy way out and thats appealing.
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #192 of 281: Tom Valovic (tvacorn) Wed 10 Jan 24 08:57
permalink #192 of 281: Tom Valovic (tvacorn) Wed 10 Jan 24 08:57
Ah also interesting. I should also clarify that I could care less about the mechanisms involved. Search is just another black box. I only care about the quality and consistency of my personal user experience as Im sure do many others. If the algorithms are constantly being tweaked that affects the latter. Search should have some sort of baseline consistency otherwise its functional reliability is compromised. I'm stating the obvious but nonetheless....
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #193 of 281: John Coate (tex) Wed 10 Jan 24 09:36
permalink #193 of 281: John Coate (tex) Wed 10 Jan 24 09:36
I just read that Vienna has the most affordable housing because the city itself owns and manages a big percentage of the housing stock. Apartments rents there are much lower. But the city is slow to respond to maintenance problems. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/jan/10/the-social-housing-secret -how-vienna-became-the-worlds-most-livable-city Socialism at work. Too bad it's such a dirty word over here.
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #194 of 281: Jon Lebkows (jonl) Wed 10 Jan 24 09:47
permalink #194 of 281: Jon Lebkows (jonl) Wed 10 Jan 24 09:47
<scribbled by jonl Wed 10 Jan 24 09:47>
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #195 of 281: David Coote (jonl) Wed 10 Jan 24 09:48
permalink #195 of 281: David Coote (jonl) Wed 10 Jan 24 09:48
Via email from David Coote: In permalink <170> "Write 50,000 essays on a near daily basis over 25 years" That would be 2000 essays/annum. Assuming 200 workdays/year that's 10 essays/day! Which sounds a tad high. And I've been reading these SOTWs for years. I'm finding this one quite boring.
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #196 of 281: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Wed 10 Jan 24 09:50
permalink #196 of 281: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Wed 10 Jan 24 09:50
If anybody can write 10 essays per day, it's <doctorow>! As for whether the conversation's been boring - I don't agree, but that's just me. I wonder what other readers think. My hope was that we'd be insightful, not necessarily exciting.
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #197 of 281: Emily Gertz (emilyg) Wed 10 Jan 24 10:26
permalink #197 of 281: Emily Gertz (emilyg) Wed 10 Jan 24 10:26
Re: #172 Thanks for sharing your knowledge and insights, Isaac.
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #198 of 281: Jennifer Simon (fingers) Wed 10 Jan 24 10:31
permalink #198 of 281: Jennifer Simon (fingers) Wed 10 Jan 24 10:31
Seconding those thanks.
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #199 of 281: from RICK CRAIN (tnf) Wed 10 Jan 24 10:45
permalink #199 of 281: from RICK CRAIN (tnf) Wed 10 Jan 24 10:45
Rick Crain writes: David Coote's skepticism of Cory Doctorow having written 50,000 essays in 25 years would be lessened had he read Doctorow's work during his many years as a BoingBoing contributor. Now it seems that he just writes one really in-depth essay for pluralistic.net most days, plus still a fair amount of others too. Rick Crain
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Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky: State of the World 2024
permalink #200 of 281: Paulina Borsook (loris) Wed 10 Jan 24 12:35
permalink #200 of 281: Paulina Borsook (loris) Wed 10 Jan 24 12:35
wrt #195, maybe this sotw is boring because the actual SOTW is indeed boring. bad and boring, for sure.
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