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Forrest Mims: Maverick Scientist
permalink #51 of 128: Forrest Mims (fmims) Mon 27 May 24 18:08
permalink #51 of 128: Forrest Mims (fmims) Mon 27 May 24 18:08
Andrew Trott asks: "I'm no scientist but I do know rhetoric and I'm trying to understand why Mr. Mims thinks it's so important that (if) the water vapor data do not conform to the models?" Water vapor, not carbon dioxide, is the chief greenhouse gas. If it is not properly measured and included in the models, how can the models be trusted? Carbon dioxide is definitely increasing, but total water vapor is not. The longest measurements of total column water vapor by the Smithsonian (1926-1957), Mims (1990 to 2020), NASA's global NVAP study, and others have no trend. That is simply a fact, not rhetoric.
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Forrest Mims: Maverick Scientist
permalink #52 of 128: Andrew Trott (druid) Mon 27 May 24 22:17
permalink #52 of 128: Andrew Trott (druid) Mon 27 May 24 22:17
My reference to "rhetoric" meant only that I am attempting to infer the nature of the argument that you think springs from the premise you are asserting. A syllogism that is only partially stated is more likely to confuse than to enlighten.
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Forrest Mims: Maverick Scientist
permalink #53 of 128: Alan Fletcher : Factual accounts are occluded by excess of interpretation (af) Tue 28 May 24 09:20
permalink #53 of 128: Alan Fletcher : Factual accounts are occluded by excess of interpretation (af) Tue 28 May 24 09:20
The climate (UV etc) aspects are in Ch's 14-19 I'm not arguing overall global warming. But there's a nice example where "professionals" were criticizing Mims' "amateur" detector, saying that high school kids would get the lenses sticky. Then you discovered that THEIR supa-dupa detector was sitting in the mist of a building AC system! Also the saga where you detected that the official satellite system had drifted in its calibration. And that the "officials" responded by declaring its range to be a meaningless +- 35 % (?) .. eventually settling on +-3%, still way in excess of your design. [ details from memory ... ]
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Forrest Mims: Maverick Scientist
permalink #54 of 128: @allartburns@mastodon.social @liberalgunsmith@defcon.social (jet) Tue 28 May 24 09:32
permalink #54 of 128: @allartburns@mastodon.social @liberalgunsmith@defcon.social (jet) Tue 28 May 24 09:32
<fmims>, when you started writing books who were you writing them for? The general public? People interestedin electronics and technology? People (like me :-) who thought Radio Shack was the best store in the world?
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Forrest Mims: Maverick Scientist
permalink #55 of 128: POOR TASTE IN KISS-WRITING (jswatz) Tue 28 May 24 10:30
permalink #55 of 128: POOR TASTE IN KISS-WRITING (jswatz) Tue 28 May 24 10:30
Plenty of people acknowledge warming as part of their soft denial, including Bjorn Lomborg and Matt Ridley. No real surprise there, since the warming is undeniable. But nibbling at the edges of the models is an easy way to release chaff that can confuse the public. Mims says the models are inaccurate. Hausfater and others whose work I've studied closely argue that the models have been accurate, if a little conservative. All models must be tested, retested and examined; blind trust serves no one. But neither does obfuscating the power of the current models. Heck, Svante Arrhenius got remarkably close with a pencil and paper â not that his models are used to day, but I bring it up to point out that the science of climate change has been remarkably potent in showing us where we're headed. Predictions of no snow sounds like the kind of thing journalists interpreting the science say â hyperbolic. Let's stick with the science, not the hot air, please.
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Forrest Mims: Maverick Scientist
permalink #56 of 128: Renshin Bunce (renshin) Tue 28 May 24 11:08
permalink #56 of 128: Renshin Bunce (renshin) Tue 28 May 24 11:08
Well said and amen
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Forrest Mims: Maverick Scientist
permalink #57 of 128: Emily Gertz (emilyg) Tue 28 May 24 13:32
permalink #57 of 128: Emily Gertz (emilyg) Tue 28 May 24 13:32
I support <jswatz> and <jonl>'s responses to Forrest's assertions on climate change, and encourage folks who want to delve into them to start with <https://skepticalscience.com/>. This is a well-regarded resource for recording and rebutting skeptic and denial arguments, and contributors include a combination of academic, professional and amateur scientists, as well as people from other professions. The Wikipedia article about the project provides good background: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeptical_Science> Great questions for Forrest in #54 from <jet>: "When you started writing books who were you writing them for? The general public? People interested in electronics and technology? People (like me :-) who thought Radio Shack was the best store in the world?" (Jet, I was a late convert to the original Radio Shack, thanks to Patrick. We went back and forth a lot to a local Radio Shack while developing the gadgets in our "With Arduino" books.)
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Forrest Mims: Maverick Scientist
permalink #58 of 128: Betsy Schwartz (betsys) Tue 28 May 24 15:53
permalink #58 of 128: Betsy Schwartz (betsys) Tue 28 May 24 15:53
Wandering back to something you mentioned earlier, I saw Sarah's page on the Smithsonian and NASA websites: https://forces.si.edu/atmosphere/03_00_02.html That is super impressive! I really admire how she, and you, are doing interesting science with home-rolled equipment. Sometimes a person could get the impression that new discoveries in science require millions of dollars and supercomputers. Did anyone follow up to see whether those spores had any effect on the local ecosystem? I saw this article but it's dated https://grist.org/grist-video/its-alive-the-groundbreaking-research-on-the-mic robes-in-wildfire-smoke/ I gotta confess, watching the first episode of "The Last of Us" , combined with learning about how mushrooms have vast underground networks of 'mycelium' ("mycelia?") jas aroused my curiosity about spores.
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Forrest Mims: Maverick Scientist
permalink #59 of 128: Betsy Schwartz (betsys) Tue 28 May 24 15:53
permalink #59 of 128: Betsy Schwartz (betsys) Tue 28 May 24 15:53
(oops forgot the NASA link to Sarah's work) https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/SmokeSecret/smoke_secret4.php
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Forrest Mims: Maverick Scientist
permalink #60 of 128: POOR TASTE IN KISS-WRITING (jswatz) Tue 28 May 24 19:37
permalink #60 of 128: POOR TASTE IN KISS-WRITING (jswatz) Tue 28 May 24 19:37
I would love to see this discussion come back to Mims' book, which I'm sure is great.
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Forrest Mims: Maverick Scientist
permalink #61 of 128: Okay, we're drifting... just one more point (jonl) Wed 29 May 24 06:14
permalink #61 of 128: Okay, we're drifting... just one more point (jonl) Wed 29 May 24 06:14
Yes, his accomplishments are fascinating to hear about, given that Forrest is a self-taught amateur scientist. It would be cool to hear more about the instruments he's built and experiments he's run over the years.
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Forrest Mims: Maverick Scientist
permalink #62 of 128: (chrys) Wed 29 May 24 08:43
permalink #62 of 128: (chrys) Wed 29 May 24 08:43
And how he choses the subjects of his experiments.
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Forrest Mims: Maverick Scientist
permalink #63 of 128: Alan Fletcher : Factual accounts are occluded by excess of interpretation (af) Wed 29 May 24 09:38
permalink #63 of 128: Alan Fletcher : Factual accounts are occluded by excess of interpretation (af) Wed 29 May 24 09:38
We didn't have anything like Radio Shack in South Africa. The closest I got is when a friend ordered an early Class D amplifier from Sinclair in the UK. It sounded bad, and I used a signal generator and oscilloscope in my physics lab to confirm it.
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Forrest Mims: Maverick Scientist
permalink #64 of 128: Bryan Higgins (bryan) Wed 29 May 24 11:28
permalink #64 of 128: Bryan Higgins (bryan) Wed 29 May 24 11:28
Mr Mims, Certainly there have been eminent scientists who have believed in God. But most I think would say that the realms of science and religion don't intersect and leave regious beliefs out of their scientific work. Do you agree that a good scientist--professional or amateur, maverick or not-- considers evidence on its own merits regardless of whether it conforms to personal beliefs, and is willing to change their mind when provided with when the evidence is overwhelming? From what I understand (as a non-scientist) the fossil evidence for evolution is so strong that the vast majority of scientsts have done just that. Why do you reject that evidence in favor of an explanation that was either crafted thousands of years ago in the age of alchemy and astrology (i.e., the Bible) or is a modern-day attempt to teach religious beliefs as facts in schools (intelligent design, "Got is testing our faith by misleading us with fossils"). If you have scientific evidence that Darwin was wrong, why hasn't it taken the scientific world by storm?
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Forrest Mims: Maverick Scientist
permalink #65 of 128: Alan Fletcher : Factual accounts are occluded by excess of interpretation (af) Wed 29 May 24 12:38
permalink #65 of 128: Alan Fletcher : Factual accounts are occluded by excess of interpretation (af) Wed 29 May 24 12:38
The Scientific American affair and its repercussions are in chapters The American Association for the Advancement of Science 29 October 1990 Dear Mr. Mims: The Committee on Scientific Freedom and Responsibility of the American Association for the Advancement of Science has received the materials you submitted in connection with your complaint regarding SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN. The legal questions that may be involved in this matter are beyond the purview of the Committee. However, the Committee does wish to affirm its commitment to the principle that articles submitted for publication in journals devoted to science, technology and medicine should be judged exclusively on their scientific merit. A person's private behavior or religious or political beliefs or affiliations should not serve as criteria in the evaluation of articles submitted for publication. We emphasize, in particular, the consensus of the Committee that even if a person holds religiously-derived beliefs that conflict with views commonly held in the scientific community, those beliefs should not influence decisions about publication of scientific articles unless the beliefs are reflected in the articles. We wish to stress that, in expressing this opinion, the Committee is not taking any position on the particulars of your dispute with SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN. Sincerely, [signed] Sheldon Krimsky, Ph.D., Chair Committee on Scientific Freedom and Responsibility cc: Jonathan Piel7
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Forrest Mims: Maverick Scientist
permalink #66 of 128: Bryan Higgins (bryan) Wed 29 May 24 12:44
permalink #66 of 128: Bryan Higgins (bryan) Wed 29 May 24 12:44
My question stands independent of whether Scientific American should have hired him.
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Forrest Mims: Maverick Scientist
permalink #67 of 128: Alan Fletcher : Factual accounts are occluded by excess of interpretation (af) Wed 29 May 24 12:49
permalink #67 of 128: Alan Fletcher : Factual accounts are occluded by excess of interpretation (af) Wed 29 May 24 12:49
Mr Mims has written (per his 1000's of entries publication list at <http://www.forrestmims.org/publications.html> only three articles on Evolution (one saying neither should be banned) .. c 1984-1990. A technical note on Junk DNA vs NoP codes was not accepted for publication. An article ($$$) in Journal of Molecular Evolution <https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00163847> appears (no abstract) to be more on epistemology than scientific details. I also saw an exchange of letters in Science (but was on my fone, no bookmark). Mr Mims has never claimed to be an authority on evolution, so I think an inquisition on his beliefs is out of place here. Finally, a cursory review (both normal and AI searches) indicates that there have been major changes in details of Darwinism since 1984.
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Forrest Mims: Maverick Scientist
permalink #68 of 128: Alan Fletcher : Factual accounts are occluded by excess of interpretation (af) Wed 29 May 24 13:15
permalink #68 of 128: Alan Fletcher : Factual accounts are occluded by excess of interpretation (af) Wed 29 May 24 13:15
He discusses elements of his skepticism of Darwinism in Chapter 13. Quoting Darwin himself, not the bible.
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Forrest Mims: Maverick Scientist
permalink #69 of 128: Alan Fletcher : Factual accounts are occluded by excess of interpretation (af) Wed 29 May 24 13:23
permalink #69 of 128: Alan Fletcher : Factual accounts are occluded by excess of interpretation (af) Wed 29 May 24 13:23
NY Times 1990 coverage is at <https://www.nytimes.com/1990/10/24/us/hire-a-creationist-a-nonbeliever-in-darw in-not-at-a-proud-science-journal.html>
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Forrest Mims: Maverick Scientist
permalink #70 of 128: Renshin Bunce (renshin) Wed 29 May 24 13:37
permalink #70 of 128: Renshin Bunce (renshin) Wed 29 May 24 13:37
af, could you let Mr Mims answer for himself?
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Forrest Mims: Maverick Scientist
permalink #71 of 128: Alan Fletcher : Factual accounts are occluded by excess of interpretation (af) Wed 29 May 24 16:32
permalink #71 of 128: Alan Fletcher : Factual accounts are occluded by excess of interpretation (af) Wed 29 May 24 16:32
I am an official reviewer, so I've quoted from the actual book.
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Forrest Mims: Maverick Scientist
permalink #72 of 128: Forrest Mims (fmims) Wed 29 May 24 20:17
permalink #72 of 128: Forrest Mims (fmims) Wed 29 May 24 20:17
This afternoon I posted a rather lengthy response to various questions and points about Scientific American, Darwinism, Climate change, amateur science, etc. and clicked on "Post." But that post has disappeared! Tomorrow (30 May) I will attempt to repeat the highlights of that post in a Word document I can save. I will then paste that response here and hope for the best. Meanwhile, detailed responses to some of the questions can be found in "Maverick Scientist."
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Forrest Mims: Maverick Scientist
permalink #73 of 128: (chrys) Wed 29 May 24 20:23
permalink #73 of 128: (chrys) Wed 29 May 24 20:23
There are times when that has happened to me. I find that if I click the arrow to return to the previous page in my browser, my text is still there to submit. (Though that might depend on the browser.)
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Forrest Mims: Maverick Scientist
permalink #74 of 128: Emily Gertz (emilyg) Thu 30 May 24 09:11
permalink #74 of 128: Emily Gertz (emilyg) Thu 30 May 24 09:11
I'm sorry you had that problem, Forrest. Please do try <chrys>'s suggestion before giving up and rewriting your answers.
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Forrest Mims: Maverick Scientist
permalink #75 of 128: Ern (ernie) Thu 30 May 24 11:45
permalink #75 of 128: Ern (ernie) Thu 30 May 24 11:45
<scribbled by ernie Thu 30 May 24 11:47>
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