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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #26 of 578: Jennifer Powell (jnfr) Mon 4 Nov 24 11:07
permalink #26 of 578: Jennifer Powell (jnfr) Mon 4 Nov 24 11:07
Trump bullied other Republicans into submission and a lot of them decided they liked it.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #27 of 578: Ari Davidow (ari) Mon 4 Nov 24 11:35
permalink #27 of 578: Ari Davidow (ari) Mon 4 Nov 24 11:35
I am cautiously optimistic. I'm a long-time denizen of the WELL (joined in 1986 just past this season) and a long-time voter. I was so upset by the Nixon re-election that I sent him an aerogram from Israel. I couldn't think of what to say, so it was a simple, Dear Mr. Nixon, FUCK YOU Sincerely Yours.... That got me investigated by the FBI, which was quite interesting. In 2004, I remember driving back to New England from Pennsylvania, where a week of door-to-door gotv activity initially seemed to have been worth it- Pennsylvania did go for Kerry. Alas, enough of the rest of the country did not. I thoroughly blew a job interview the next morning in Rhode Island. Between lack of sleep, disappointment, and the impossibility of shifting gears from gotv, I was hopeless. In 2008, spouse and I watched from a conference room in the library at Brandeis University. That was such a grand pleasure, and not just the location. In 2016, however, after a day of gotv in NH (again, NH went for my candidate, just not enough of the rest of the country), I went to bed by 11pm, thoroughly bummed out and not yet appreciating just how bad the former guy would be. This year, I am hoping for 2008 and 2020. I feel I have reason to be cautiously optimistic, but who the fuck knows. I also have reason to be very scared. And, mostly, I suspect we won't have anything like a sure sense of where things will be for quite some time. That, too, is scary - I haven't forgotten how Bush managed to get the Supremes to help him steal the election in 2000.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #28 of 578: Tiffany (magdalen) Mon 4 Nov 24 11:43
permalink #28 of 578: Tiffany (magdalen) Mon 4 Nov 24 11:43
<scribbled by magdalen Sat 9 Nov 24 15:25>
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #29 of 578: Stoney Tangawizi (evan) Mon 4 Nov 24 12:07
permalink #29 of 578: Stoney Tangawizi (evan) Mon 4 Nov 24 12:07
> it's common here. i prefer the old-school flag. red, white, and blue. As a guy born in Washington, DC on Flag Day, I heartily endorse your preference.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #30 of 578: Axon (axon) Mon 4 Nov 24 12:13
permalink #30 of 578: Axon (axon) Mon 4 Nov 24 12:13
We fly the earth flag. When a nosy neighbor asked why, I told him "because I'm an earthling. What planet do you come from?" He's kept his distance since.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #31 of 578: Ron Sipherd (ronks) Mon 4 Nov 24 13:28
permalink #31 of 578: Ron Sipherd (ronks) Mon 4 Nov 24 13:28
<https://people.well.com/user/ronks/toons/tunnelOfNext.jpg>
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #32 of 578: Jennifer Powell (jnfr) Mon 4 Nov 24 13:33
permalink #32 of 578: Jennifer Powell (jnfr) Mon 4 Nov 24 13:33
I think two things (at least) are very important for tomorrow. The first, of course, is the Dobbs decision and how that has mobilized women ever since the ruling. This has been consistently underappreciated but tomorrow I think it's going to be decisive, especially the anger from older women who have fought for these rights their whole life and are furious about the loss (like me!). We've seen this is the recent Iowa poll that surprised so many, and I suspect we'll see it everywhere tomorrow. Adult women tend to be very reliable voters. The second is the recent ugly and racist attack on Puerto Rico by the Tr*mp campaign, which seems to have shifted a significant portion of Latino voters from undecided to Harris, and even shifted some away from Tr*mp. We'll see tomorrow if that's right, but I believe it is.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #33 of 578: Renshin Bunce (renshin) Mon 4 Nov 24 14:00
permalink #33 of 578: Renshin Bunce (renshin) Mon 4 Nov 24 14:00
There are those things, and then there is the thing of the "grab them by the pussy" tape circulating on TikTok and possibly mobilizing younger voters (in addition to making them ask their parents how they can/could vote for that guy). I'm taking heart from hearing Heather Cox Richardson say that, when America turns, it turns fast. We need a reset badly.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #34 of 578: Sweeney (sweeney) Mon 4 Nov 24 14:08
permalink #34 of 578: Sweeney (sweeney) Mon 4 Nov 24 14:08
Yes, that's another aspect that I'm not sure is being taken into account: a younger demographic. The stuff laughed off as just "locker-room talk", "just a joke" doesn't sit well with them. And that elaborate minefield that Trump laid for Biden about being old and doddering .. well, he is doddering in the middle of it now himself. Countering these is the four years of voter suppression efforts, removal of broader voting options introduced during the pandemic, a hardening of the political polarization, growing mistrust of authorities, and still an embrace of the Big Lie and conspiracies.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #35 of 578: Ari Davidow (ari) Mon 4 Nov 24 14:32
permalink #35 of 578: Ari Davidow (ari) Mon 4 Nov 24 14:32
What gives me hope is how viscerally Trump has refused to expand his base, and how corrupt the management of his gotv effort has been. That, and the joy that comes out of Harris's events. But, I was so wrong in 2016.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #36 of 578: Ari Davidow (ari) Mon 4 Nov 24 14:33
permalink #36 of 578: Ari Davidow (ari) Mon 4 Nov 24 14:33
And yet, Trump seems so spent since Kamala entered the race. So, maybe.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #37 of 578: Lisa Poskanzer (lrph) Mon 4 Nov 24 15:55
permalink #37 of 578: Lisa Poskanzer (lrph) Mon 4 Nov 24 15:55
Hi, I'm Lisa. I've only been here since the Kerry loss sent me looking for intelligent life outside of Palm Beach County, FL. Even though it's been almost 20 years, I still feel like a newbie. I feel a Harris win in the air. I don't think it will be close, either. I'm willing to be publicly wrong about that. But I think she wins in a big enough way to shut his shit down.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #38 of 578: jelly fish challenged (reet) Mon 4 Nov 24 15:57
permalink #38 of 578: jelly fish challenged (reet) Mon 4 Nov 24 15:57
I keep telling myself that we won in 2008, 2012, popular vote in 2016, won in 2020 ...and that was without major republican leaders calling for other Repubs to vote for our candidate this time. so, hopeful.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #39 of 578: Emily Gertz (emilyg) Mon 4 Nov 24 16:11
permalink #39 of 578: Emily Gertz (emilyg) Mon 4 Nov 24 16:11
I believe that since 2000, the Democrats have won the popular vote for all but one presidential election: GWB's second term.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #40 of 578: Axon (axon) Mon 4 Nov 24 16:27
permalink #40 of 578: Axon (axon) Mon 4 Nov 24 16:27
One of the observers I'll be following closely is Tom Bonier. He offers this boilerplate advice as we head into election day: >>My election eve reminder - during election day and in the first couple of hours after polls close, the ratio between the appetite for data that tells us how things are going to the predictive value of that data is just massive. Exit polls don't gauge turnout, like pre-election polls they are based on an estimate/predicton of turnout. In the weeks after the election they will reweight them to actual turnout. So don't, do not, use early exit polls as such.<<
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #41 of 578: Axon (axon) Mon 4 Nov 24 16:28
permalink #41 of 578: Axon (axon) Mon 4 Nov 24 16:28
Link: https://x.com/tbonier/status/1853565557213216870
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #42 of 578: a (coiro) Mon 4 Nov 24 16:53
permalink #42 of 578: a (coiro) Mon 4 Nov 24 16:53
Hoping the younger cohort makes a real difference - me, too. I've watched a couple videos of young women reacting to "grab them by the pussy", and it's revelatory. They're just not tolerating that shit. The optimism coming from some of the 'beings here is encouraging. I can feel only the most cautious of optimism in me. Let's talk about The Great Divide. Do you have families, friends, or colleagues who support Donald Trump? Have you made efforts to converse? If so, how did those turn out? If not - what thoughts led you to not bother trying? One person in my circle had a change of heart literally in the act of filling out their ballot. Strictly interested in the economy - above all other considerations, which is its own troublesome territory to me - they were going to leave the presidential space on the ballot blank. Thinks Kamala will be actively awful for the middle- and upper-middle class, primarily in terms of taxes. But couldn't vote for Trump at all, no way. At the last minute voted for KH - because, they said, if Trump won they couldn't live with themselves. In terms of the questions I posed: it took all I had to keep my mouth shut while this friend worked it out for themselves. I had my say and that was that. Were they more vehement, though, I'm not sure how well I would have handled it. To my great good luck, there are no Trump supporters (or third-party supporters) in my immediate circle.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #43 of 578: a (coiro) Mon 4 Nov 24 16:57
permalink #43 of 578: a (coiro) Mon 4 Nov 24 16:57
Worth noting for our visitors: in large, the populace of the Well has at best no time for Trump, and at worst great anger and fear against him. That doesn't mean you need to feel the same way. I'm just acknowledging that's the prevailing view here, and in my own case. That's why I'm comfortable phrasing the above the way I did. That said, your civil and reasoned point of view is more than welcome here, even if you disagree. Send us your email and we'll post and discuss your comments. Or join the Well! As jonl noted: >>While non-members cannot post directly, we welcome your comments and questions. You can email them to inkwell (at) well.com, and we'll post them here on your behalf. If you'd like to participate in more discussions like this, consider joining the WELL: <https://www.well.com/join/>.<<
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #44 of 578: Renshin Bunce (renshin) Mon 4 Nov 24 17:46
permalink #44 of 578: Renshin Bunce (renshin) Mon 4 Nov 24 17:46
Angie I LOVE the story of your friend seeing the light at the moment of marking their ballot. As for polls - after 2016, I don't trust any of them. Which has made this all the harder. I'm reading Bonier, too, since Heather Cox Richardson says she trusts him. I wish he'd say Kamala will win.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #45 of 578: Ron Levin (eclectic2) Mon 4 Nov 24 18:19
permalink #45 of 578: Ron Levin (eclectic2) Mon 4 Nov 24 18:19
JFTR, I don't think there's anybody pulling Trump's strings, or any plans to replace him at any point should he win. I think Putin is definitely behind efforts to promote fascism wherever he can, but I'm afraid our fascism is mostly homegrown, with long roots throughout our history. Many of Trump's closest associates are veteran operatives of McCarthy, Nixon, and other quasi-fascist figures and activities. And I don't think Trump can be replaced. He's the creator and leader of a cult of personality. He's the center of the universe. Usually, the first-born son takes over from such a figure only upon death, but I don't know if that'll be the case with Jr. The questions that most concern me is how did we ever get into this situation, and how do we get out of it?
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #46 of 578: Larry Person (lperson) Mon 4 Nov 24 18:44
permalink #46 of 578: Larry Person (lperson) Mon 4 Nov 24 18:44
<scribbled by lperson Wed 6 Nov 24 10:16>
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #47 of 578: @allartburns@mastodon.social @liberalgunsmith@defcon.social (jet) Mon 4 Nov 24 20:19
permalink #47 of 578: @allartburns@mastodon.social @liberalgunsmith@defcon.social (jet) Mon 4 Nov 24 20:19
Something I heard on POTUS yesterday, I think Julie Mason's (excellent) show, as that Harris has raised $1.3 billion, and a third of that is from people who were donating to a campaign for their first time. So, that's at least $300 mil from people who have never donated to a campaign.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #48 of 578: Ozro W. Childs (oz) Mon 4 Nov 24 20:34
permalink #48 of 578: Ozro W. Childs (oz) Mon 4 Nov 24 20:34
For all intents and purposes this is an election between Harris and Vance. Trump may not survive to take office. If he is sworn in, he has become mentally incapable of doing the job. So he will be eased out early on. Now I say that as somebody who did not think the world would end in 2017. And it didnt. I think the worst President in my lifetime was George W Bush. I expected Trump to keep us out of war and he did. Plus his tax cut was I think a good thing and is largely responsible for our amazingly good economy under Biden. No chance it will be repealed. Yet matter what Trump may say there is no appetite for further tax cuts of any significance.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #49 of 578: Jennifer Powell (jnfr) Mon 4 Nov 24 20:44
permalink #49 of 578: Jennifer Powell (jnfr) Mon 4 Nov 24 20:44
Listening to Harris tonight in Pittsburgh and now ending in Philly, and the crowds are committed and loud and she is excellent.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #50 of 578: a (coiro) Mon 4 Nov 24 20:53
permalink #50 of 578: a (coiro) Mon 4 Nov 24 20:53
I'll tell ya, no matter how hopeful you are or aren't, the differences in their rallies can't be argued. And we haven't seen her fellate a microphone, not even once. Just like Donny says, she's a c-word: classy.
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