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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #51 of 578: William F. Stockton (yesway) Mon 4 Nov 24 21:01
permalink #51 of 578: William F. Stockton (yesway) Mon 4 Nov 24 21:01
I am optimistic about the VPs situation. I just got done canvassing in Reno for a week. Ive done that every 2 years since 2010(except 2014 and 2020). This time every list I was given was 5-10% 18-21 year olds. Mostly women. Ive never seen that before. Loadza brand new voters, mostly female. Trumps going to get Swiftie Booted.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #52 of 578: @allartburns@mastodon.social @liberalgunsmith@defcon.social (jet) Mon 4 Nov 24 21:25
permalink #52 of 578: @allartburns@mastodon.social @liberalgunsmith@defcon.social (jet) Mon 4 Nov 24 21:25
>I think the worst President in my lifetime was George W Bush Who swapped out a majority of the supreme court leading to Roe vs. Wade being overturned. Who installed a shitton of RWNJ judges to the federal system, many who have little, if any experience, but are willing to support RWNJ politicians. Not. Anti-gun people should love GWB, he signed the bill that greatly restricted the ownership and transfer of military firearms legally owned by civilians.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #53 of 578: Andrew Alden (alden) Mon 4 Nov 24 22:48
permalink #53 of 578: Andrew Alden (alden) Mon 4 Nov 24 22:48
It may be really Harris vs Vance, as you say Oz, but while Trump is alive he will do much damage in his special Three-Stooges-on-Crank way.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #54 of 578: (mlyle) Mon 4 Nov 24 23:54
permalink #54 of 578: (mlyle) Mon 4 Nov 24 23:54
I have a really hard time imagining Trump stepping quietly out of the way. Exercising the 25th amendment in this political climate is rife with opportunities for chaos.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #55 of 578: Drew Trott (druid) Tue 5 Nov 24 00:47
permalink #55 of 578: Drew Trott (druid) Tue 5 Nov 24 00:47
I don't believe in God in any conventional sense, but I beseech any unseen powers that may exist out there to end the mad rightward careen that has been underway in this country since 1980. The world looks to us for leadership, and all we've provided them for 44 years is a case study in the ways democracy can fail. Here's to the fever breaking today. May the body politic here and elsewhere pull out of the global descent into the lizard brain. As Heather says, these things can happen rapidly. Let it be so now.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #56 of 578: Drew Trott (druid) Tue 5 Nov 24 01:03
permalink #56 of 578: Drew Trott (druid) Tue 5 Nov 24 01:03
Meanwhile, there are numerous reports on NextDoor to the effect that businesses in downtown Portland, Oregon (my newly adopted home) have boarded up their lower floors in anticipation of possible election unrest.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #57 of 578: Andrew Lewin (draml) Tue 5 Nov 24 01:13
permalink #57 of 578: Andrew Lewin (draml) Tue 5 Nov 24 01:13
Hi, I'm Andrew, and I'm one of the WELL's foreign correspondents as I live and work in London, England (and was born in the UK too, so no vote for me today). I'd have to say that the mood here is best summed up as "anxious" because most of us can't believe that Trump has even a chance of avoiding a total rout today let alone polling neck and neck with Harris especially after his deteriorating condition and behaviour in recent weeks. We're counting on the Great American Public not to royally f*** it up today.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #58 of 578: Drew Trott (druid) Tue 5 Nov 24 02:05
permalink #58 of 578: Drew Trott (druid) Tue 5 Nov 24 02:05
One of the things we should have learned from all this is that there is a huge pool of resentment on the part of those who feel left out, left behind, left alone, left to fend for themselves. If the American public once again proves not-so-great, voting-wise, it can be blamed on all those lefts. Which is a funny way to put it, since the left would happily have saved them from all that. But the left hasn't had much to do with policy since 1968. What the right is great at is sticking it to the working class and then persuading them that the left is to blame. And the left can't respond very effectively since a candidate who explicitly identifies as left probably won't survive the primaries, given the outsized role of money in our elections. It's a grossly defective system, but not easily repaired.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #59 of 578: Drew Trott (druid) Tue 5 Nov 24 02:17
permalink #59 of 578: Drew Trott (druid) Tue 5 Nov 24 02:17
For those very few readers who may be watching the returns in real time (who would do that?), Robert Reich warns of the "red mirage": > Votes are counted by precinct, and Democrats tend to live in > more densely populated, urban precincts, while Republicans > tend to live in more sparsely populated, rural ones. It just > takes longer to count the votes in a precinct with a lot of > people than in a precinct with fewer people. So the early returns tend to favor Republican candidates, but later returns generate a "blue shift" toward Democrats. In a rational evidence-based culture, none of this would matter. In our culture, it provides Trump et al. with a basis to start shouting early about a "steal." (But at this point, is that like crying "Wolf" one too many times?)
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #60 of 578: Drew Trott (druid) Tue 5 Nov 24 02:18
permalink #60 of 578: Drew Trott (druid) Tue 5 Nov 24 02:18
Cite: <https://robertreich.substack.com/p/be-prepared-for-the-red-mirage-on>
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #61 of 578: Christian De Leon-Horton (echodog) Tue 5 Nov 24 02:32
permalink #61 of 578: Christian De Leon-Horton (echodog) Tue 5 Nov 24 02:32
Im actually pretty confident that Harris has this in hand. Im also quite worried about how the network of well-funded Trump supporters are going to contest her victory.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #62 of 578: Larry Person (lperson) Tue 5 Nov 24 04:01
permalink #62 of 578: Larry Person (lperson) Tue 5 Nov 24 04:01
<scribbled by lperson Wed 6 Nov 24 10:17>
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #63 of 578: Jennifer Powell (jnfr) Tue 5 Nov 24 04:31
permalink #63 of 578: Jennifer Powell (jnfr) Tue 5 Nov 24 04:31
Vance would be just as bad or worse, but in a different way.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #64 of 578: Michael Newman (jstrawtoo) Tue 5 Nov 24 06:09
permalink #64 of 578: Michael Newman (jstrawtoo) Tue 5 Nov 24 06:09
Every orifice is clenched. I'm afraid that nothing's going in or out today. This feels like the most fraught day in our nation's history...certainly in my lifetime.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #65 of 578: Transforming energy since 1949. (jonl) Tue 5 Nov 24 06:09
permalink #65 of 578: Transforming energy since 1949. (jonl) Tue 5 Nov 24 06:09
Judd Legum's Popular Information notes that vote counts will fluctuate (as Reich mentioned in the quote above in <59>), and has published a guide explaining how those fluctuations will work in various states: <https://popular.info/p/heads-i-win-tails-you-lose>
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #66 of 578: Alan Fletcher : Factual accounts are occluded by excess of interpretation (af) Tue 5 Nov 24 06:14
permalink #66 of 578: Alan Fletcher : Factual accounts are occluded by excess of interpretation (af) Tue 5 Nov 24 06:14
Britain's politics has been in turmoil recently. But they still have 'His Majesty's loyal opposition'. And we now have 'The enemy within'.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #67 of 578: Transforming energy since 1949. (jonl) Tue 5 Nov 24 06:45
permalink #67 of 578: Transforming energy since 1949. (jonl) Tue 5 Nov 24 06:45
Jon Meacham has an op-ed about Trump: <https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/05/opinion/donald-trump-regret.html> "Given our binary system, a vote for Kamala Harris is a vote for a democratic ethos in which we can pursue lives of purpose and prosperity under the rule of law. A vote for Donald Trump puts that ethos at risk. .... "The point of our democracy is to debate and to disagree within an arena defined by the rule of law and informed, ideally, by respect for conventions that enable us to endure without falling into a Hobbesian war of all against all. A Harris presidency would preserve that arena. Another Trump presidency could destroy it."
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #68 of 578: Emily Gertz (emilyg) Tue 5 Nov 24 06:59
permalink #68 of 578: Emily Gertz (emilyg) Tue 5 Nov 24 06:59
Among my few go-to sites for election and political analysis is electoral-vote.com. One of the reader comments posted today, about the factors not accounted for in polling, strikes me as astute: "The rule of thumb is a good GOTV is worth 1 to 3 points. Abortion should be worth 2-5 pts. Legalized Jane should be worth 2-5 pts, Liz Cheney folks voting for Harris should be worth 2-5 pts. Among other things I do not understand is the polls having it 50/50. To counter all these pluses it means the racism and anti-female slant of the electorate is 10 pts. plus. If such is true, I am very disappointed in my fellow Americans."
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #69 of 578: Jennifer Powell (jnfr) Tue 5 Nov 24 07:00
permalink #69 of 578: Jennifer Powell (jnfr) Tue 5 Nov 24 07:00
Same.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #70 of 578: E. Sweeney (sweeney) Tue 5 Nov 24 07:32
permalink #70 of 578: E. Sweeney (sweeney) Tue 5 Nov 24 07:32
"F.B.I. officials said unknown people had been circulating fake news clips and videos using the bureaus insignia to push false narratives that voters should avoid polling places because of imminent terror attacks. The new warning came hours after officials warned that foreign actors, led by Russia and Iran, were accelerating misinformation efforts." Foreign or domestic interference ...? <https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/11/05/us/trump-harris-election/ddf199d4-ef44 -5220-8620-e082c9b72ca8?smid=url-share>
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #71 of 578: Axon (axon) Tue 5 Nov 24 07:36
permalink #71 of 578: Axon (axon) Tue 5 Nov 24 07:36
>those who feel left out, left behind, left alone, left to fend for themselves Are they, though? It seems as though the meat of the MAGA are not economically distressed, but instead offended about progressive culture shifts that erode their historical white privilege. They're certainly being *told* that they are being marginalized economically, but if so they should be easy pickups for the Biden/Harris economic recovery. It seems to me that their central grievance is that propertied, white, Christian males enjoy no more elevated status than anyone else (and complain that "illegals" are the beneficiaries of their perceived demotion), which to them feels oppressive. They want to return to a time when women, minorities, immigrants and "deviants" were subordinate to them, and resent that their own identity silo is regarded as malignant. Demographics are coming for them with a meat hook. GenZ is only 51% unadulterated white, and the next generation will be majority minority. It isn't that more nonwhite people are immigrating, nor that nonwhite families reproduce more abundantly. The phenomenon that fuels this demographic trend is intermarriage. It's not quite so prevalent as you might suppose from watching television advertising, which has been casting biracial or multiracial families pro forma (and including all sorts of multiculti extras, from disabled and mesomorphic to gay and gender fluid family members) in all types of product promotions, but none so much as pharmaceutical ads. But the heart wants what the heart wants, even in small towns in rural areas, and a lot of people now have cafe au lait in laws and grandchildren. That has changed their perspective, and made this cultural shift visible even in Mayberry. But the butthurt propertied white Xtian males see these ads and the changes in their own hometowns and see their vision of a nation that never really existed slipping away. And they see Kamala Harris as the avatar of that cultural shift, and the Democratic Party as the movement animating it. It isn't economic opportunity they're losing; it's social influence. They profess a great deal of contempt for these communities, but it is really fear that animates it. It isn't that they are deprived of material agency; it's that they are politically (and soon statistically) irrelevant. Blutocrats have prospered by agonizing the privilege receptors of these disappointed atavists, but as I expect this election to demonstrate, they just don't have enough noses to count. This is the election in which they will be dispositively outnumbered enough to show up in the EV. This explains the apocalyptic rhetoric, and the draconian policy priorities calculated to compensate for their new minority status. They know how minorities are treated in this country, and they want no part of it.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #72 of 578: William F. Stockton (yesway) Tue 5 Nov 24 07:41
permalink #72 of 578: William F. Stockton (yesway) Tue 5 Nov 24 07:41
Reichs admonition that (druid) posted in #59 is the opposite of what happens in Nevada. There, the urban Blue votes come in first, and the Red rural votes trickle in late. In 06, when my cousin was running for the NV2 House seat, she was up by 3 points at 11pm. The young pro who was running her operation warned us against getting our hopes up. The morning revealed she had lost by 5-6%. Im really hoping young voters surprise the Rethuglicans. A genuine electoral drubbing might be the only thing that keeps the rowdy right from raising a ruckus.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #73 of 578: Transforming energy since 1949. (jonl) Tue 5 Nov 24 07:44
permalink #73 of 578: Transforming energy since 1949. (jonl) Tue 5 Nov 24 07:44
Oddly, I can't find that text <sweeney> posted in <70> by following that link, or by searching online. I did find this: <https://youtu.be/GvtI1fyIOWw?si=QHCmwsuMkdWbLHOE>
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #74 of 578: E. Sweeney (sweeney) Tue 5 Nov 24 07:44
permalink #74 of 578: E. Sweeney (sweeney) Tue 5 Nov 24 07:44
I believe that people hear that the economy is awesome, inflation stopped, and they wonder why prices in the grocery have never returned to their pre-pandemic levels. They may have a cost-of-living increase or a hike in wages (or they may not!) but the price of better cuts of meat are still something like 25% over what they used to be. Things that were $2.50 on sale are now $4.50 on sale. To them, the local grocery now seems like Whole Paycheck, even if their paycheck is bigger than before. Things did not revert to the earlier price structures. Now this can be explained, but looking at a couple of nice steaks for $50 is what people encounter every week, and it makes an impression.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #75 of 578: E. Sweeney (sweeney) Tue 5 Nov 24 07:45
permalink #75 of 578: E. Sweeney (sweeney) Tue 5 Nov 24 07:45
Jon, it's a Live Updates page, so it has probably scrolled down the list some now. I believe it was posted around 7am Pacific.
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