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permalink #151 of 1922: I'm Larry, this is my brother Darryl, and this is my other brother (tinymonster) Tue 28 Jan 03 16:38
permalink #151 of 1922: I'm Larry, this is my brother Darryl, and this is my other brother (tinymonster) Tue 28 Jan 03 16:38
And just think -- you can play it on your Playstation!
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permalink #152 of 1922: Mary Roane (the-roane) Tue 28 Jan 03 16:47
permalink #152 of 1922: Mary Roane (the-roane) Tue 28 Jan 03 16:47
Poll: Teaching seniors in a poor inner city school: a. Brave New World b. Animal Farm c. 1984 d. Neverwhere (Brave New World is the underdog, since I've never been able to read the blasted thing--*excruciating*) Mary, toying with lesson planning
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permalink #153 of 1922: I'm Larry, this is my brother Darryl, and this is my other brother (tinymonster) Tue 28 Jan 03 16:49
permalink #153 of 1922: I'm Larry, this is my brother Darryl, and this is my other brother (tinymonster) Tue 28 Jan 03 16:49
I take it you have to pick only one?
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permalink #154 of 1922: Mr. Curriculum (stagewalker) Tue 28 Jan 03 16:52
permalink #154 of 1922: Mr. Curriculum (stagewalker) Tue 28 Jan 03 16:52
I'd have to go with Brave New World... there's a lot of rage in there, and a lot about the dangers of self-medicating through entertainment and how entertainment can be used to pacify the masses into accepting the status quo. Also, some of the stuff about how society keeps its underclass is truly chilling. I think that the kids will really be able to identify.
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permalink #155 of 1922: Dan Wilson (stagewalker) Tue 28 Jan 03 16:54
permalink #155 of 1922: Dan Wilson (stagewalker) Tue 28 Jan 03 16:54
A coworker just recommended 1984, said that Animal Farm is more for 9th graders. Also that he considered Brave New World more appropriate (in terms of writing level) for a slightly younger group. He also said that "Cry the Beloved Country" is good.
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permalink #156 of 1922: a hairy minded pink bare bear (erynn-miles) Tue 28 Jan 03 19:13
permalink #156 of 1922: a hairy minded pink bare bear (erynn-miles) Tue 28 Jan 03 19:13
Brave New World would be good. But then, they're all good. John-Mike- MCL! Haha. I'm there a lot. it's right across the street. I always write on the napkins. Matinees are $2 now. I haven't been because they're playing, well, lame mall movies. But I'm sure I'll go eventually. Bloomington is a wonderful town, for exactly the reasons you mentioned. I don't think I'd rather live anywhere else right now, except of course deep in the mountains with goats. But I can't afford that at the moment, so I'll have to settle for Bloomy. Mary- Congratulations! That's awesome. Pam- Good luck with everything. I hope everything's going well. Neil- yeah. I figured. Lucky for me, I own all of the Sandmans. It's the early stuff..... And I want to see you movie. Waah. Of all the times *not* to be in London. Okay, I wasn't really here either. I have a HUGE stack of napkins on my desk that I need to go through. You would *think* that I would carry my notebook around with me.
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permalink #157 of 1922: Grant Barnes (pyrus-malus) Tue 28 Jan 03 23:08
permalink #157 of 1922: Grant Barnes (pyrus-malus) Tue 28 Jan 03 23:08
I'd go with 1984. It's the most timely, and I'd suggest that it makes a clearer ethical argument than Brave New World. Fahrenheit 451 might be an option as well.
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permalink #158 of 1922: Hey, it's my Hyphenation buddy! (tinymonster) Wed 29 Jan 03 07:22
permalink #158 of 1922: Hey, it's my Hyphenation buddy! (tinymonster) Wed 29 Jan 03 07:22
F451 crossed my mind as well. Of the four books you mentioned, Mary, I must say I've only read the Orwell ones.
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permalink #159 of 1922: I'm Larry, this is my brother Darryl, and this is my other brother (tinymonster) Wed 29 Jan 03 11:37
permalink #159 of 1922: I'm Larry, this is my brother Darryl, and this is my other brother (tinymonster) Wed 29 Jan 03 11:37
re: The "disarming" journal entry* -- HAHAHAHA! I'll say it again, Neil, I <i>love</i> the way your mind works. *For anyone who doesn't know, Neil's journal is at http://www.neilgaiman.com/journal/journal.asp
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permalink #160 of 1922: Mary Roane (the-roane) Wed 29 Jan 03 19:23
permalink #160 of 1922: Mary Roane (the-roane) Wed 29 Jan 03 19:23
Um, these kids are working in a *7th grade* vocabulary book, and failing multiple choice tests on words like "monotonous". I'm rereading 1984 right now, and they might like it, but I kind of doubt it. Animal Farm I need to reread as well, but I'm thinking Neverwhere would be a devil of a lot more interesting, and lead off into writing about homelessness, adventures, identity, magic, and lots of other stuff I'm too tired to think about right now. The genesis of the book (TV show to novel) might be an avenue to explore as well, since we're going to have written TV commercials by then. And they're not reading any fantasy--there's another section on Science Fiction and Mystery. I'm not sure which short stories I'll be teaching there, but the textbook that we have is called "Science Fiction, Science Fact & You". On top of all this, since administrators are constantly looking for video tie-ins, I have the Neverwhere vid, and I shudder to think what the film versions of any of the others might look like. Dunno, it's an idea I'm having. I suspect that significant numbers (read: 9 out of 10) of them simply *will not* read Orwell or Huxley. I can't bear the thought of forcing them to read Huxley when I can't, and I'm honestly afraid that 1984 is beyond them. I *think* I could hook them into Neverwhere enough to get them to read it, if only to find out what happens. And it's a racially mixed group of characters. And stuff. In other news, laughed myself asthmatic over Neil's journal. For some reason, I hear it with a Southern accent (he's just disahmin"). And there's a great copy editor's forum called Got Copy Editors? here that I've been reading for the last 2 hours instead of writing lesson plans. It sort of fits in with the journal article. And completely off-topic, I have to recommend the Big Soccer boards as well. My roommate is getting me hooked, and I'm not even a soccer fan. The political forum is particularly entertaining. Am so tired my rambling is rambling. Off to eat & crash. Mary (reading 1984, Science Fiction, Science Fact & You, Better Homes & Gardens, Two Years Before the Mast, Emily Dickinson, Richard Wright, Langston Hughes, and probably 2 or more things that I'm leaving out, *all at the same time*)
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permalink #161 of 1922: I'm Larry, this is my brother Darryl, and this is my other brother (tinymonster) Thu 30 Jan 03 09:11
permalink #161 of 1922: I'm Larry, this is my brother Darryl, and this is my other brother (tinymonster) Thu 30 Jan 03 09:11
But Mary, wouldn't making them read Huxley teach them the meaning of "monotonous"? <ig> You make a good case for <i>Neverwhere</i>, though. And it might bode well that, after years of my being "too busy," it was Neil who got me voraciously reading again. A good sign, that.
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permalink #162 of 1922: Pamela Basham (pamela-bird) Thu 30 Jan 03 16:22
permalink #162 of 1922: Pamela Basham (pamela-bird) Thu 30 Jan 03 16:22
Maure: Congrats on the radio show! It sounds like a hoot. And now you're goin' all Hollywood on us, with your very own stalker 'n all. Pretty soon you'll have your own large, tanned bodyguard with Gucci shades, too. ;-) Mary: I remember 1984 making a large impression. But, to echo Christy, you make your own good argument for Neverwhere. * And here I go with another complete non-sequitur... I've just encountered a person who honestly values absolutely nothing I have to offer as a human being. He's not a bad person. And neither am I. He just honestly doesn't seem to see anything worthwhile in me at all. It was... a learning experience. I mean, has anyone ever truly encountered that? We might as well have been aliens from two different planets. We couldn't seem to find anything in each other that made any sense, nothing that fit any of our understanding or experience of what people *are*. There are people who rub you the wrong way, people who just aren't really sympatico, or people who are uninteresting... But this was something else. I honestly don't think I've ever felt so completely and profoundly dismissed in my entire life. Can't say I care to repeat the experience. Anybody have thoughts or experiences to share?
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permalink #163 of 1922: Rocky (rocky-nyc) Thu 30 Jan 03 17:21
permalink #163 of 1922: Rocky (rocky-nyc) Thu 30 Jan 03 17:21
I'm telling you that Maddy G. is a riot. Poor Trevor! Hehe.. And Mary? I'd like to make the case for Neverwhere too! Messers. Coup and Vandemar will definitely *grip* their imaginations...by the throat if necessary. <EG> Wonder if they'll hear RenFair music in the background like I did while reading the book? And what do you mean it only happened to me? ;p Re 1984: Timely indeed. Get our those "War is Peace" signs. :( Neil - That's the first time I've found anything about Dubya even remotely funny. Oh, Pam slipped! But in answer to your question, I've had a few encounters with people like that, it's like they're standing in front of you with a sign screaming, "NEXT!" Buy hey, it only serves to remind me how precious my relationships are with others. Hell, I haven't met you in person and I find you interesting! So it's not you, it's him.
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permalink #164 of 1922: Mary Roane (the-roane) Thu 30 Jan 03 18:40
permalink #164 of 1922: Mary Roane (the-roane) Thu 30 Jan 03 18:40
I second Rocky. It's definitely him. People who dismiss other human beings like that sort of scare me. I've been dismissed like that a few times. It's icky. I try to always remember the bit Neil has somewhere in Sandman about how everyone has a whole world locked up inside them. And think good thoughts about my roomie Jeff, 'cause he just auditioned for the permanent chorus at Lyric Opera (can you say $35,000 a year, benefits, etc.?) he blew the G at the end, but otherwise sold the Bellini aria he sang. Fingers crossed for a callback. He's already called back for Light Opera Works.
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permalink #165 of 1922: Maure Luke (maureluke) Thu 30 Jan 03 19:17
permalink #165 of 1922: Maure Luke (maureluke) Thu 30 Jan 03 19:17
Yay for Jeff!! That rocks! I'm crossing lots of fingers for him. Mary, I'd second (third?) F451 (is that even something you'd consider?). It's shortish, and reads quickly, and is just so good. Pam, yeah, our stalker was pretty ineffective and sort of uninteresting as far as stalkers go, but it gave us something to talk about on the air. It was very fun. I had a great time. As for your being dismissed out of hand, I wouldn't think on it too much. His assessment (or mis-assessment (is that a word?)) of you doesn't change who you are, so you haven't lost anything. He has. Does that make any sense? I love Maddy stories.
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permalink #166 of 1922: Neil Gaiman (neilgaiman) Thu 30 Jan 03 20:37
permalink #166 of 1922: Neil Gaiman (neilgaiman) Thu 30 Jan 03 20:37
One day Mike Ford will collect his Occasional Verse. Or I hope he will. Jinxie -- welcome back. Maure -- the radio show sounds really cool. Christy -- I flew. There wasn't much choice. And I'm now convalescing at hom. (First time sick in ages, though, and I got through the whole directing gig without a cold.) Mary -- hmm... well, given my own experience with Inner City Chicago kids -- really nice, and bright, and with no cultural landmarks of any kind to hold onto, they'll probably read Animal Farm as a story of a bunch of animals on a farm and consider it kid's stuff, rather than a chilling parable, BNW and 1984 will be "difficult" -- even medicinal -- and Neverwhere will be pretty alien but probably fun. Even Neverwhere may have its problems, though. I'll never forget the slow feeling of horror as I talked to a room of 15-16 year old young art students about the 'Midsummer Night's Dream' episode of SANDMAN, and gradually realised that what went on in the word balloons could have been so many Woodstock chicken-scratchings for all the real content they'd taken from it. (I suspected a few of the girls understood, but they kept quiet.) pamela -- there are aliens out there. (& yes, I know I owe you an e-mail.) Maure -- I could fill the journal with Maddy stories, but don't -- she's started reading it now, just to see if I'm writing about her. I picked her up from rock-climbing this evening, and was driving home when she said, out of the blue, as if she'd been pondering it for quite a while now, "Daddy... why *is* perpetual anticipation good for the soul but bad for the heart?" in that sort of tone of voice that doesn't permit you to say "No idea". So I found myself trying to explain a Sondheim waltz.
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permalink #167 of 1922: John M. Ford (johnmford) Fri 31 Jan 03 12:00
permalink #167 of 1922: John M. Ford (johnmford) Fri 31 Jan 03 12:00
For what it's worth, both film versions of 1984 are quite well done (there's also a BBC production with Peter Cushing, which is well spoken of, but I've only seen clips of that). The animated ANIMAL FARM from the Fifties looks good (it was made by John Halas and Joy Batchelro, it ought to) but the ending is a travesty -- the "good" animals hold a counter-revolution and restore the status quo pro ante. Now, the following is not a joke: it has recently been revealed that the film (made in Britain) was actually financed by the CIA -- E. Howard Hunt was the principal spook involved -- as a bit of Cold War propadingbat. BRAVE NEW WORLD was made as a TV miniseries about twenty years ago; it wasn't very good, but I don't recall it as awful I noticed a more recent version in the TV listings a few days ago, but haven't seen it (and am not that interested). It is an unfortuante fact that, while many of the attempts at sf by non-genrefied authors are either social satires (which may or may not be good) or just crap (Herman Wouk being a particularly bad example), an awful lot of the genre classics of the Fifties and Sixties are not that good either; pulpish, badly characterized, unintelligible if you aren't already in that particular groove. In a feeble attempt to be constructive, the people I know in the book trade generally agree that Schmitz's WITCHES OF KARRES is The Book Nobody Dislikes; it has some dated character stuff (a lot of cigarette puffing), but, well, this is not a totally alien phenomenon. MORE THAN HUMAN comes to mind, but then, I am old and getting older. And then there's LUD-IN-THE-MIST.
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permalink #168 of 1922: Pamela Basham (pamela-bird) Fri 31 Jan 03 16:50
permalink #168 of 1922: Pamela Basham (pamela-bird) Fri 31 Jan 03 16:50
Neil: Just caught up with the journal. And I thought your political commentary was perfectly relevant. I'd feel a whole lot better about the future if I thought that man was actually capable of blushing about anything. (It was also hysterical.) Mary: Melodic *beams* for Jeff! Rocky, Mary, Maure, Neil... thank you for your responses about my "close encounter." I loved them all, and I loved just as much that they were all so unique, like seashells of completely different species each as lovely as the next. I love the minds and hearts on this group. What a fabulous troupe's gathered here. A friend of mine, when I told her that I regretted even trying to connect with this person, said essentially: "No you don't. You quested. That's what we do with life and people. And sometimes you get gold, sometimes crap, and most times something in between. But you don't stop questing." She's quite a chick. My own shameless plea for moral support and prayers to your chosen power(s)... I'm leading the ritual for Imbolc (festival of Brigid) this weekend--my first time. I'm excited, but nervous. Beams would be sincerely appreciated. Best wishes for the weekend to all.
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permalink #169 of 1922: Pamela You-Can't-Eat-Just-One Basham (pamela-bird) Fri 31 Jan 03 16:54
permalink #169 of 1922: Pamela You-Can't-Eat-Just-One Basham (pamela-bird) Fri 31 Jan 03 16:54
Separate post for this one... and just to be clear, nothing in this pertains to anyone here. I seem to be on something of a philosophical bender, lately. I have something I'd love to get people's feedback on. It's about a conversation a friend and I had recently about writing and writers. Well, it started about that and then moved into the larger arena of artists and art in general. It's about the process and something about the feedback loop between creator and creation. Here's her premise: > I learned awhile back - there are LOTS of people put on this > earth to bring something to the masses without ever even > remotely getting it themselves, much less believing it. I'm of two minds about this. (As a Gemini, I'm usually of at least two minds about nearly everything.) I think that many good artists are like ambidextrous sword-fighters: they can fight with either or both the left hand of personal or intuitive insight or/and the right hand of empirical observation. As an artist, I tend to be handicapped toward the left. And I know a few actors who work mostly from the right. On the other hand (ahem ;-))... I have a hard time understanding how someone might perceive something about people or life so accurately that they can write about it with deep credibility but never really assimilate it into themselves. For instance, say, a male author who writes female characters that women *recognize*, but who doesn't seem to recognize women in real life. I don't quite get how anyone--particularly an artist--could comprehend something at that level but never really process it in a personal way. Thoughts, experiences, anyone?
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permalink #170 of 1922: Mary Roane (the-roane) Fri 31 Jan 03 17:28
permalink #170 of 1922: Mary Roane (the-roane) Fri 31 Jan 03 17:28
As it happens, I had a confab with my head of department today, and she says get book orders to her Monday. Just that easy. So I've got to find a vendor who'll handle 30 copies of Neverwhere. I'm planning on surprising them with the video after they've read it. When it is released on DVD, I'll order 2 copies and donate one to the department, so they'll have the book & DVD for anyone else who wants to teach it next year. Mike--thank you for the recommendations! I've never read any of those, so they're going on my list. And I completely agree with you that many of those "classics" wouldn't work either, for just the reasons you said. I've been reading some short stories in that sci-fi textbook I mentioned, and couldn't imagine my kids caring about many of them. The older ones are really pulpy, and character development gets ignored in favor of whiz-bang! science or technology. Neil--thanks. That makes me feel much better. Neverwhere might be a little over their heads, but the characters are so wonderful, and the story moves at such a pace, that I think I can get them hooked, and once they start I think they'll finish. I'm going surfing after this to buy a Tube map to put up in my classroom (OK, it's an excuse to get one for myself--I admit it ;-) ), so maybe that will help. Some of my kids have been/are homeless, or wards of the state, and I think they might connect on that level as well. Certainly they are invisible to a lot of people. I have a student who just won a city-wide sports competition, and when I congratulated him, and mentioned his being recruited by colleges (he's a senior) he said, "Colleges don't come down here to recruit". I hope and pray that he's wrong. I'd like to see him get a chance to become whatever he wants. I always wondered how that class you visited went. We talked about it briefly at the time, but we weren't in a location where we could discuss it in depth. One of the reasons I'm not going to teach Sandman as part of the comics section is because I don't think I could bring myself to cut up 30 copies of that book. I'm sorry the students didn't get more out of the story. I've got to remember to check our library to see what, if any, graphic novels they have. Do you happen to remember which sections of Neverwhere you read on the signing tour? I have a wonderful memory of you reading Croup & Vandemar, and I could *not* wait to read the book & find out what was going on after you read. But exactly which passage escapes me. I thought I'd read an exerpt or two in class to get them started. Perhaps, "There are four simple ways for the observant to tell Mr. Croup and Mr. Vandemar apart..." And what is it with Wandsworth? Richard's report, Death's goldfish..... OK, I'm too tired to be posting. (You can always tell--I don't know when to shut up.) So, off to shop for Tube maps (perhaps I should get an umbrella? ;-) ) Mary (who gets to teach Shirley Jackson to sophomores next week--hurrah!) Ah, Pamela--excellent question. I'll have to think about it.
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permalink #171 of 1922: 1,2,3 - HEY, ROCKY! (tinymonster) Fri 31 Jan 03 19:44
permalink #171 of 1922: 1,2,3 - HEY, ROCKY! (tinymonster) Fri 31 Jan 03 19:44
As long as you're stopping by... Can you tell me if the CD plays OK/is in decent condition? I'm waiting to give feedback to the seller. ('Course, they haven't left me feedback yet, either.)
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permalink #172 of 1922: Dodge (hnowell) Sat 1 Feb 03 09:27
permalink #172 of 1922: Dodge (hnowell) Sat 1 Feb 03 09:27
Pamela: I don't know any writers that do that but I have known people who were like that. A man who professed to wanting to be a minister could never understand why the Baptist seminary wouldn't let him finish his classes and graduate. At parties and with groups of people, everyone would spill their guts to him and he'd advise them. On relationships. Love. Religion. He knew it all. Was good at empathising. No one who spoke to him could understand why the board couldn't see him as a good leader of a church. He'd also been married 5 times that I knew of last I saw him and been accused of beating one of his stepchildren with some hints of same for a previous stepchild. His wives claim mental and physical abuse and adultery. The fact is, He knows all the answers. Knows all the rules. Knows intellectually the difference between right and wrong. But none of these things apply to himself. A very charming, charismatic man with a total lack of accountability. Now you've got me thinking though. Something that came up the other day. About the difference between the person you know at work and the way they are at home. For instance. A crusty curmudgeon that nobody likes. Nobody wants to work with. Abusive to subordinates. Difficult. Bad vibes all around him at work. He dies and you go to his funeral and find yourself surrounded by his friends and family who loved and adored him and they speak of how wonderful he was. How giving. His acts of philanthropy. You feel like you've wandered into the wrong funeral. Or just the opposite. The person everyone gets along with. Easy going. Great boss. Treats everyone with respect. And you find out they have never had a friend for more than a few months and can't stay married and everyone who has ever dealt with them personally can't stand him. It's as if these people have a limited amount of good character and they spend it all in one place, either work or home. Like Jekyl and Hyde. Only the "potion" is where they are not something they drank. Like their location turns them into monsters. They have but to step out of their car in the parking garage at work, or conversely in the garage at home, to trasform into Hyde. Well. I'm at work. I'm trying not to think about the disaster this morning. I only found out when I got here to make up a couple of hours from a doctor appointment. It's a beautiful, sunshiny 70 degrees clear blue skies day here in Houston. I didn't listen to the radio on the way to work. Didn't read a paper. Only found out when I signed on to the web upon turning on my computer here. So sad now.
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permalink #173 of 1922: Erynn Miles (erynn-miles) Sat 1 Feb 03 11:52
permalink #173 of 1922: Erynn Miles (erynn-miles) Sat 1 Feb 03 11:52
Yeah, I found out about the disaster this morning when I woke up only because my sister can't sleep without the TV on. I feel so bad for the families. Pamela- I think it's easier to advise people or to have good ideals , then it is to live by them or follow your own life rules. So many people try to fix themselves by fixing other people. I know so many people in general who rarely practice what they preach, although they usually have good intentions. Mostly psychologists I know. I'm guilty of it sometimes as well. I try though. I don't know about writers...maybe some shape their characters based on how they themselves wish they could act of resolve things. It's a good thing to think about. Mary- That's awesome! I wish I would have had you for a teacher. Christy- Check your email, girlfriend.
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permalink #174 of 1922: The Phantom of the Arts Center (tinymonster) Sat 1 Feb 03 12:01
permalink #174 of 1922: The Phantom of the Arts Center (tinymonster) Sat 1 Feb 03 12:01
Had a bunch of responses all ready last night, just one more to add and then I'd post (and it wasn't really that long a post), and my laptop does that I-think-I'll-totally-freeze-and-not-allow-myself-to-be-turned-off thing. !@#$^!#%! So from now on, when I'm posting from here, you may see a series of several one- or two-paragraph-long posts. I'm not trying to fill this topic up prematurely. Honest. Slipped by Ze Erynn. Yep, I got your e-mail, but haven't had time to look.
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permalink #175 of 1922: The Phantom of the Arts Center (tinymonster) Sat 1 Feb 03 12:08
permalink #175 of 1922: The Phantom of the Arts Center (tinymonster) Sat 1 Feb 03 12:08
Maure -- BUT did you play any Thea Gilmore? And I love Maddy stories too. (I'm kind of sorry I missed all the Mike and Holly stories, at that.) Neil, feel free to fill THIS site with them! Mary -- Jeff must be really talented. Keep us posted; fingers crossed for him! And, safety post.
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