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permalink #201 of 468: Michael Bravo (jonl) Sun 9 Jan 22 03:34
permalink #201 of 468: Michael Bravo (jonl) Sun 9 Jan 22 03:34
Via email from Michael Bravo: For another Kazakhstan-related quip, I find it illuminating that there were so much interest on possible bitcoin influences, but zero mention of the fact that Kazakhstan has 40% of world uranium mining, and EU seems to be on the cusp of rebranding nuclear energy "green" again (see https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/03/fury-eu-moves-ahead-plans-label- gas-nuclear-green) On the Metaverse, Patrick's #190 is excellent, I wholeheartedly concur. I would say I see more "metaverse" potential in MMOGs than in any of the corporate-powered hype trains. The latter are, first and foremost, utterly devoid of meaning. My clan in Destiny 2, or my 15+ years involvement in the deliciously intricate world of EvE Online, or my escapades as a Fuel Rat in Elite Dangerous contain immeasurably more effort, meaning, friendships, skills and ultimately joy based on my relationships with people who play, than anything facebook/meta/alphabet ever contemplated. I always considered the whole approach that there are some separate "virtual" world(s) as nonsensical. Holistical angle seems much more natural to me - we've got this one reality substrate we operate on. It's absolutely arbitrary how we spend the cycles. Some people oscillate between 9-to-5 and beer and family. Some build amazing feats of engineering despite the world laughing and cursing at them. Some collect matchboxes. Some sail the seas. Some spend time plugged into the techno-gig du jour wielding the sword of the Thousand Truths with their friends across the globe. But it's all the same real world, there's nothing "virtual" about it. It's just another go at "us vs them".
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permalink #202 of 468: Emily Gertz (emilyg) Sun 9 Jan 22 07:44
permalink #202 of 468: Emily Gertz (emilyg) Sun 9 Jan 22 07:44
George Mokray, I appreciate your comments. I dont think anyone who knows me well would call me an irrationally optimistic person. However, living in the middle of several epic social, economic and political upheavals as we all are, how do we get perspective on whether democracies are on an inexorable decline or progressive transformation, say? Most of the worlds wealth is permanently in the hands of 1% of 1% it looked that way during the Gilded Age, too, in the U.S. Conspiracy thinking and disinformation are going to definitively edge out objective facts or investigative journalism for the long haul? Broadly defined, news media - both in the info they provide and the means by which they provide it have been emerging and evolving since Gutenberg figured out how to mass produce books nearly seven centuries ago. Thats a third of the span of time we term the common era. Kinda hard to write that off as an weird and transitory accident of civilization. Within a few centuries of that, general elections started to appear limited and corrupt and sporadic, but also a leap in expectations about who governs who after centuries of submission to divine or religious rule. Lets get a lot more focused. Looking at the U.S.: When I was switching from content strategy and web production to being an environmental journalist around 17 years ago, Exxon was the richest company in the history of money, and spreading climate disinformation with abandon. Coal-fired power produced more than 50% of Americas electricity. The common wisdom there was it wouldnt substantially decrease for decades. Solar energy cost around $3 per watt to install (down from nearly $7 in the mid-1980s), and the general wisdom was it wouldnt become as affordable as coal or methane gas before the 2030s or later. Today: Exxon isnt even in the top 10 most valuable U.S. firms. Its disinformation efforts have been so throughly exposed that it at least feels the need to talk the low carbon spiel, and attorneys general are bringing a potent array of consumer fraud lawsuits. Coal hovers at about 20% of the power supply and generally dropping. Solar is below a dollar a watt. Hell, between that and the renewable energy tax credits, my own 45-unit co-op here in Brooklyn has gone solar. Between the citys climate action law and the states, were also in the process of retiring our gas cooking lines in favor of electric. Were definitely ahead of the curve for our size, but maybe also a harbinger. Most of the shareholders here are mainstream liberals and only agree to this stuff when its clearly going to be cost effective now and improve resale value later. The climate crisis is also advancing way faster than we thought it would 15-20 years ago, of course, and both the U.S. and most other major polluters still moving way too fitfully and slowly. The sixth great extinction isnt something we can slow or reverse with technology, a la carbon drawdowns potential (lets hope Kim Stanley Robinbsons scenario that dumping a planets worth of salt into the Atlantic current to keep it moving has legs). That is the bleakest situation of all. All Im saying is that in many ways, the common wisdom privileging the negative indicators over the positive 15-20 years ago got a lot of things wrong.
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permalink #203 of 468: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Sun 9 Jan 22 08:21
permalink #203 of 468: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Sun 9 Jan 22 08:21
Thanks, Emily. When all are busy protesting the darkness, it's hard to see the light. But there is always good news as well as bad; the psychology of infotainment privileges the bad over the good, inherently.
Via email from Gyrgir: I enjoyed very much Moxie Marlinspike's web3 critique: it's fair and balanced, but ultimately brutal. I also read Vitalik's answer, posted by <bslesins> in #176, but I have a different take on it. Vitalik mirrors a sentiment that I often see in the tech contingent of crypto/web3, as expressed here also by Vinay: "Yes, all these bad things are true, but this is not what we intended.". That, and "give it time". But Vinay, we are not living in 1976: this is 2022 and it's all about unintended consequences now. And we do not have time. Anyone who claims that blockchain-as-in-practice-today is just a basic technological brick ignores the total sum of our collective experience from 2000 onwards. It's like saying social networks, or even graph theory for that matter, are a technology with both good and bad aspects, but then again: Facebook. I might sound rant-y but I'm an optimist at heart, and I won't throw the baby out with the bathwater. So I'm asking: what about these (and other) unintended consequences? What can we do about them? Today*, not tomorrow. With blockchain or not, according to your tastes. For example, as Bruce wrote in #7, in our chronically diseased world there are some things you just can't do anymore. Maybe coordinated action at an inter-national level is one of them. Are DAOs any kind of reasonable answer to that, today? What about in some historical tomorrow (as opposed to a mythical/fantastical tomorrow)? * The 'today' restriction automatically disqualifies Vijay's carbon accounting of #179. Not when this magnificent future comes into being; today.
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permalink #205 of 468: Michael Bravo (jonl) Sun 9 Jan 22 08:26
permalink #205 of 468: Michael Bravo (jonl) Sun 9 Jan 22 08:26
Via email from Michael Bravo: Something that <bruces> casually says in <195> bugs me. The reigning wiseguy of Russia never was a "dynamic fireball of a guy" (unless you would enjoy seeing heavy Godwin's law applications to be labeled as "dynamic fireballs"). He is a career KGB officer, serving in East Germany for the peak of that career (think Stasi liaisons). He almost ended up as a minor municipal grifter at the end of USSR, but was wily enough to build organized crime connections that have propelled him to where he is now, a professional top klept player. People he trained in a judo club with, played ice hockey with, who cooked for him or played music for him, [and survived] have all been integrated into the klept structure to help protect the money and the machine that extracts it from the country. Notable difference from Corleone is that there are no horse heads these days, instead you get a team of faceless FSB spooks slathering nerve agent on your underwear. So a dynamic sleazeball - maybe, and that's already a stretch.
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permalink #206 of 468: Brian Slesinsky (bslesins) Sun 9 Jan 22 08:54
permalink #206 of 468: Brian Slesinsky (bslesins) Sun 9 Jan 22 08:54
<scribbled by bslesins Sun 9 Jan 22 08:55>
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permalink #207 of 468: Brian Slesinsky (bslesins) Sun 9 Jan 22 08:57
permalink #207 of 468: Brian Slesinsky (bslesins) Sun 9 Jan 22 08:57
During the pandemic I've gotten used to looking at charts and the solar ones look a lot more cheerful than the pandemic ones. It is discouraging when large forests in the Western US go up in smoke though. One estimate has emissions from wildfires in the Western US last summer at 130 million tons [1]. To put that in perspective, that seems to be about twice Bitcoin. [1] <https://indianexpress.com/article/technology/science/californias-wildfires-hig h-carbon-dioxide-emissions-7537351/>
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permalink #208 of 468: Vinay Gupta (hexayurt) Sun 9 Jan 22 09:16
permalink #208 of 468: Vinay Gupta (hexayurt) Sun 9 Jan 22 09:16
Gyrgir: https://twitter.com/avalancheavax/status/1456334992687128577?lang=en-GB Avalanche is 20? 30? 100? times faster than Ethereum, Ethereum compatible, and emits less than 500 tons of carbon a year - and is offset. I sorted out their carbon credits buy last year for COP26, as well as encouraging them to go Net Zero in the first place. It's already here. Ethereum will take a bit longer to reach Net Zero, but they'll get there. Bitcoin is A Problem. It would cost about a billion dollars a year to get Bitcoin to Net Zero. Maybe half that if they can prove how much solar/hydro/wind they are using, which is going to be tricky. Moving those people to Net Zero is going to take either a miracle or acts of law: they've defined that electricity burn as core to their security model, so they would have to unpick a decade of propaganda to move to a "proof of stake" bitcoin fork.
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permalink #209 of 468: Brian Slesinsky (bslesins) Sun 9 Jan 22 09:35
permalink #209 of 468: Brian Slesinsky (bslesins) Sun 9 Jan 22 09:35
On the topic of patience versus urgency, I tend to want to push back against urgency as a default mode of communication, as is so often the case in social media, at least the stuff widely shared. I feel like if you're going to urge people along then you ought to have some specific thing you want them to do. Maybe people will buy your sales pitch and maybe they won't, but the call to action should at least be legible. Too often we seem to be urging others to hate on the designated enemy or be very depressed about the world. As observers hanging out in an Internet forum, I don't think we urgently need to do that. They are not really actions so it doesn't matter if we do them or not. A small, local kind of urgency that I can get behind is getting people to read an article or watch a video that you think is really great. Or read a book?
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permalink #210 of 468: Virtual Sea Monkey (karish) Sun 9 Jan 22 09:52
permalink #210 of 468: Virtual Sea Monkey (karish) Sun 9 Jan 22 09:52
Bitcoin is unnecessary. Many of us have heard the chestnut "APIs are forever". Protocols are even more persistent. There's no incentive built into the Bitcoin protocol to encourage green mining, other than the cost of electricity. This suggests to me that mining will never move very far toward Net Zero.
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permalink #211 of 468: Brian Slesinsky (bslesins) Sun 9 Jan 22 09:58
permalink #211 of 468: Brian Slesinsky (bslesins) Sun 9 Jan 22 09:58
Encouraging people to learn about Avalanche is a thing you could do. There are many cryptocurrencies, though, and researching them tends to be unpleasant reading. (Or worse, watching videos of talking heads.) It's an uphill battle. An in-depth blog post of the sort Marlinspike wrote, by someone who knows something and isn't afraid to kick the tires, would probably be helpful for any new cryptocurrency. I'm reminded of Jepsen tests. A computer researcher started blogging about testing the claims made by vendors of distributed databases and finding how they break. This eventually became a sort of quasi-standard where upcoming authors of new distributed databases would want to have him run his tests and write an evaluation, to show they are serious. (In this way I am rooting for team curiosity without, you know, actually being curious enough to volunteer.)
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permalink #212 of 468: Patrick Lichty (plichty1) Sun 9 Jan 22 10:05
permalink #212 of 468: Patrick Lichty (plichty1) Sun 9 Jan 22 10:05
Brian, I (at least this year) teach in a Mass Communication department, where we teach about advertising giants like David ogilvy and the like, and I agree totally on the urgency take. Unless I'm misintepreting, there need to be media people who are able to do better than to throw flotillas of statistics and say "WE GOTTA DO SOMETHING!" There needs to be somewhere that is able to cut through the Fake and say clearly, calmly in a way that has real consequences, "Look we don't have all the answers yet, but here are some beginnings." Part of steering the Queen Mary is taking resolve for someone to start steering. Individuals are probably not going to enact this sort of change. It's going to take platforms, nation states, whatever to get things moving. And some of it won't be fair or profitable. The question is systemic; eventually there's probably going to be a class revolt, world war, or systemic collapse. I wish I could say 50-100 years, but if Trump gets re-elected, I wager 5-10. But the way the system is gerrymandered globally, someone has to blink, and IMO, web3 or the Blockchain isn't going to solve it. The digital network as a whole, and even if humanity goes wholly electric, none of this is sustainable. What to do? Honestly consider radical models of sustainability, zero waste (as Eath is a closed homeostatic system), and get serious about consumptive attenuation models before Malthus rises from the grave. Energy-wise, Nuclear's re-emergence is scary. Green Hydrogen and gravity batteries seem really interesting. But Mars colonization isn't happening, and capitalism;s eternal growth model is't sustainable. ' But to get here, I agree that urgency probably won't work either. Clear, modest goals over short increments, and thinking of how to have a gentle necropolitics. Next episode: The Metaverse, or why automation will cause BMI then a new labor market in cyberspace. Homework: "Hyper-Reality" (Video by Keiichi Matsuda)
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permalink #213 of 468: Patrick Lichty (plichty1) Sun 9 Jan 22 10:10
permalink #213 of 468: Patrick Lichty (plichty1) Sun 9 Jan 22 10:10
And, by the way, After the Metaverse post, I'll try to think of something positive.
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permalink #214 of 468: John Coate (tex) Sun 9 Jan 22 10:11
permalink #214 of 468: John Coate (tex) Sun 9 Jan 22 10:11
A data point about the news business: in 2000, the last year I was at the SF Chronicle (managing sfgate.com), the paper grossed 139 million dollars in classified revenue. Now they don't even have a serious classified section.
>Too often we seem to be urging others to hate on the designated enemy or be very depressed about the world. Performative defeatism. It's viral among the butthurt left.
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permalink #216 of 468: Vinay Gupta (hexayurt) Sun 9 Jan 22 10:52
permalink #216 of 468: Vinay Gupta (hexayurt) Sun 9 Jan 22 10:52
Patrick, I did some futuring around what real sustainability might look like in America about 15 years ago. https://www.shareable.net/the-unplugged/ === quote begins === So we Unpluggers found a new way to unplug: an independent life-support infrastructure and financial architecture a society within society which allowed anybody who wanted to "buy out" to "buy out at the bottom" rather than "buying out at the top." If you are willing to live as an Unplugger does, your cost to buy out is only around three months of wages for a factory worker, the price of a used car. You never need to "work" againthat is, for money which you spend to meet your basic needs. === quote ends === I think we're getting pretty close to the point where that might start kicking in. The Tiny House movement is a stab at it, and the issues around banning tiny houses and the general tensions around property values and so on. If you legalized tiny houses as long as they were off-grid solar and super insulated - a green building code for tiny houses in fact - I think tens of millions of Americans would slash their ecological footprint by moving into one. Certainly so many young people. Then inside your tiny house you can go flying in a hang glider over Zurich for 15 cents of electricity to run your VR goggles.
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permalink #217 of 468: Vinay Gupta (hexayurt) Sun 9 Jan 22 11:00
permalink #217 of 468: Vinay Gupta (hexayurt) Sun 9 Jan 22 11:00
On nuclear: the big problems with nuclear are fourfold. 1) it's super expensive 2) it can be used to make weapons 3) old reactors are super hard to maintain and decommission - they get dangerous and sometimes explode 4) what to do with the waste I have a *super not good* solution for this. https://www.geocurrents.info/geopolitics/mapping-u-s-foreign-military-bases Have the US military build nuclear reactors on all of its bases around the world, and plug them into the national grid of their host countries to provide power. US DoD now has a gigantic big ticket item they can transfer over all their dumb pork war projects over to. Pork for centuries. No problem getting it through congress. And take 100% responsibility for maintaining and operating the reactors: they are simply a part of normal base operations. Build reactors everywhere. Charge some low low price for the power (it's subsidised by pork) and cement the dependency of many poor nations on US assistance. Great plan, right? Green nuclear imperialism could save the planet. WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG? I think this is possibly the worst idea I ever had, but it sure has some fantastic chrome on it.
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permalink #218 of 468: Andrew Alden (alden) Sun 9 Jan 22 11:35
permalink #218 of 468: Andrew Alden (alden) Sun 9 Jan 22 11:35
And think of what the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (or whatever its current name is) could do with the military budget behind it!
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permalink #219 of 468: Virtual Sea Monkey (karish) Sun 9 Jan 22 11:55
permalink #219 of 468: Virtual Sea Monkey (karish) Sun 9 Jan 22 11:55
I've been skeptical of nuclear energy for a long time for reasons like the ones <hexayurt> listed. Some reading I did last month suggested to me that I might have been too hasty in deciding that I knew enough to draw worthwhile conclusions. 1970-generation nuclear generating stations are very expensive because they use the light water moderated design that Adm. Hyman Rickover chose to power nuclear submarines, in about 1949. He made the right choice for powering submarines, and that design has worked very well for the Navy. Scaled up by a factor of 500 for power generating stations, the design needs elaborate and redundant operating infrastructure to keep it safe. We don't have to stay stuck with that design. That it's difficult and expensive to decommission that generation of reactors is largely because the design requires such large structures. Jimmy Carter halted movement toward reprocessing of spent fuel over concern that it would result in a plutonium economy and proliferation of weapons. This was based on a politically alarming but technically inaccurate premise, that plutonium from power reactors could be used to make bombs. The isotopic mix in plutonium from power reactors is not suitable for making bombs. I think I'm moving, to quote the immortal Rocket J. Squirrel, toward saying "This time, for sure!" in thinking that nuclear engineers will pull a rabbit out of a hat soon. The industry has been promising sweet technologies, coming real soon, that would make nuclear energy cheap and safe. This time they may be right. The key technology is reactors that run on fuel dissolved in molten salt, with a thorium-based fast neutron fuel cycle that burns up most of what would be useless waste in a light water reactor and that doesn't produce fissionable residue. These reactors are much closer to being fail safe than are light water reactors and don't need elaborate support systems to achieve that safety. With reprocessing, the amount of long-half-life waste would be reduced by more than 95%, which would mean that the already-developed repositories would handle a much larger fraction of the storage requirement.
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permalink #220 of 468: Vinay Gupta (hexayurt) Sun 9 Jan 22 12:14
permalink #220 of 468: Vinay Gupta (hexayurt) Sun 9 Jan 22 12:14
Nuclear's *hard* https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/08/180823113558.htm pebble bed reactors were going to save us, then not so much. Does not predict future performance, of course.
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permalink #221 of 468: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Sun 9 Jan 22 12:27
permalink #221 of 468: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Sun 9 Jan 22 12:27
James Lovelock, of the Gaia hypothesis, has been in favor of nuclear energy sources: <http://www.jameslovelock.org/nuclear-power-is-the-only-green-solution/> "Opposition to nuclear energy is based on irrational fear fed by Hollywood-style fiction, the Green lobbies and the media. These fears are unjustified, and nuclear energy from its start in 1952 has proved to be the safest of all energy sources. We must stop fretting over the minute statistical risks of cancer from chemicals or radiation. Nearly one third of us will die of cancer anyway, mainly because we breathe air laden with that all pervasive carcinogen, oxygen. If we fail to concentrate our minds on the real danger, which is global warming, we may die even sooner, as did more than 20,000 unfortunates from overheating in Europe last summer." I'm offering this as JADP; I don't know enough about nuclear energy to say whether he's got a point.
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permalink #222 of 468: Vinay Gupta (hexayurt) Sun 9 Jan 22 12:31
permalink #222 of 468: Vinay Gupta (hexayurt) Sun 9 Jan 22 12:31
He has a point, but he's picked the wrong risk: Chernobyl and Fukushima are not the problem. North Korea and Pakistan are the problem.
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permalink #223 of 468: Brian Slesinsky (bslesins) Sun 9 Jan 22 14:26
permalink #223 of 468: Brian Slesinsky (bslesins) Sun 9 Jan 22 14:26
I don't know anything about this guy but this seems to be a good introduction to Kazakhstan's significance for the Russians, particularly for those (like me) who were thinking of it as "one of those former Soviet republics." <https://twitter.com/ClintEhrlich/status/1479517789450911747>
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permalink #224 of 468: Paulina Borsook (loris) Sun 9 Jan 22 15:10
permalink #224 of 468: Paulina Borsook (loris) Sun 9 Jan 22 15:10
all seems very reasonable.
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permalink #225 of 468: Paulina Borsook (loris) Sun 9 Jan 22 15:16
permalink #225 of 468: Paulina Borsook (loris) Sun 9 Jan 22 15:16
hmm, just did a search on clint ehrlich which made him sound very pro russia https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/craigsilverman/the-report-was-actually-ca lled-shower-of-falsehoods but i didnt read that twitter stream as being that way.it just explained why russia would be so tweaked about what's going on in kazakhstan.
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