inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #226 of 367: Aftermath *excerpt* (indra) Fri 5 Nov 99 00:48
    
'Bear, I don't want any secrets between us. Secrets are barriers. I
went home from college wearing my disgrace like a suit of armour, but
when Angela (note: her stepmother) opened the door, all I saw was a
grey woman whose life hadn't gone as she'd planned. I felt quite sorry
for her. This lasted three days. On the third day we were talking about
my course: poetry and drama. Angela recited a poem she'd always liked.
It was about a cat, an awful poem, sugary and sentimental. This desire
to hurt her just rose up in me. I said, "That's not real poetry, this
is poetry." I picked up a magazine I'd brought back and began reading
out a poem I liked. Angela got up, grabbed the book from my hands,
ripped the page out and tore it into tiny pieces. Her face was twisted
and hateful. I backed away. She followed me. She stalked round the room
after me saying, "Clare is clever. Clare is wise. Clare is always
right." With each step she threw bits of poem at me like confetti and
when it was all gone she left the room. No-one else said anything. I
picked up the pieces. I was crying. I sat at the kitchen table and
tried to sellotape the bits together. I couldn't do it, my hands were
shaking so much. Then I got my stuff and walked out of my father's
house. I've never seen her since.'

        Exit Clare with bare behind. Watching the twin globes of her backside
waltzing a retreat, I'm thinking that somehow I must drag myself off
her sofa and into my car. I must get home. But in a few minutes she
returns and with a sad smile hands me an envelope full of torn scraps.
'One odd thing,' she says. 'Later, I arranged the pieces, like a
jigsaw, but mistakenly assembled them the wrong way up. There was a
beautiful poem -- which I'd never noticed before -- on the reverse.'
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #227 of 367: Roger Garfitt (indra) Fri 5 Nov 99 01:02
    
The story is true, but Clare (= Calypso the Shades witch) had
forgotten which poem/s were involved. So I used "Animula", by a friend
of mine, Roger Garfitt, with whom I first started corresponding about
poetry twenty five years ago, when I was at Cambridge and he was
teaching at Oxford. I edited a small poetry magazine and asked him for
a contribution. He sent me "Animula". It is my favourite lyric poem of
all, ranking in my mind with Donne and Herrick.

When I asked Roger if he'd mind my tearing his poem to bits in
Cybergypsies, he was a good sport and agreed. Anyone wanting to read
his work should look for "West of Elm", a collection published by the
Carcanet Press. If you go to Amazon.co.uk, you can find some
collections, including his latest, "Border Songs", from which Vickie
and I had the pleasure of hearing him read last year.

This link might work: 
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/026-2898577-1966445

The torn-up poem is the first big clue as to how Cybergypsies is meant
to be read. The second major clue comes two thirds of the way through
the book, by which time you have collected a mass of often confusing
material. I'll give it below.
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #228 of 367: Wagner James Au (wjamesau) Fri 5 Nov 99 01:30
    

Jesus Slut, come check out News 2528, where you've generated quite a stir.
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #229 of 367: Indra Sinha (indra) Fri 5 Nov 99 01:49
    



Driving through West Cork, it's easy to see how people had to believe
in giants. They had to have existed. There's no other way to explain
the geology: the hills, piles, hummocks of stone, steep earth cones,
occurring at random, sticking up out of otherwise rolling levels. In
some places the landscape looks as if it had been tussled by a married
giant-couple having a tug-of-war over a blanket, pulling the earth up
over shins and chins. Our bedroom in the hotel this morning bore
witness to a more pleasant struggle. 

 I glance over at Eve. She is turned away from me, watching the
fantastic landscape passing outside her window. Why is she so quiet?
What is she thinking? Is she regretting that her initiation into
cyberspace left us both craving kisses? Why today's silence? I don't
want to ask. I want to go back to last night. Not to the tunnels of the
underworld, but to memories of travels when we were younger and in
love. We had always liked roaming together: journeys in India, our
happy time in Venice (the gondolier's curious cry, a oie! -- whose
ancestry, like that of a certain four letter word, is thought to be
untraceable, but which is surely the progenitor of English oi! --
probably just meaning l'oeuil or 'use your eyes') becoming fluent in
the language of birds. We came back through France and went to a
village called Hauterîves where there had lived a magic postman,
Ferdinand Cheval, known as ‘le facteur Cheval’, Postman Horse. 

Hauterîves. Hautes rêves. Or high Rîves? By one of those strange
coincidences which the cosmos employs to remind us that the world we
inhabit is made of dreams, this too is a must for pilgrims of
architecture. Here, eight decades after Kubla Khan, the postman dreamed
a fantastic dream. Had he taken laudanum for some ache or ailment? We
don't know. All we know is that while out on his rounds he had seen an
interesting stone lying on the ground. He had picked it up and examined
it -- and, on impulse, slipped it into his sack of letters. That night
he dreamed of a palace, marvellous beyond description, and knew that
his life's work was to build it in his garden. It took ten thousand
days of patiently picking up stones, balancing his bulging mailbag like
a sack of onions on the crossbar of his bicycle, thirty-three years of
enduring the quolibets d'un village qui croyait que son facteur était
devenu fou. But when the palace was finished, it was a unique and
perplexing blend of all possible styles, cultures and civilisations.
Picasso admired it and Malraux considered it 'le seul exemple en
architecture de l'art naif'.

        All that you see, passer-by, is a peasant's handywork.
        Out of a dream I have brought the queen of the world.

In Hauterîves the postman built for his lifelong love, his wife, a
dream castle of stone. Eve and I returned to England and began the
search which led to our own leafy Castle Perilous.  

The silence is louder than words. It roars with the Land Rover's voice
as we traverse the turbulent marriagescape. 




NB: Venice, architecture, particularly the work of Carlo
Scarpa...refer to the previous section in which, during an excursion
into the labyrinth of a cybergame, Eve remembers Venice (there is a
particular reason for this) and her memories of wandering around
Cannaregio, a storm near the Rialto bridge, bumping into an American
called Rîves, constantly interrupt and subvert the cyber experience. 

Rîves worked in an art gallery near the Fenice theatre. We found him
playing a classical guitar, with his feet on the desk, and music spread
across his lap. He stopped when we entered because, as he said, the
owner, the wonderfully named sculptor Matteo lo Greco, didn't like him
playing when customers were around. But we asked him to continue, and
by and by the conversation led from sculpture to architecture, hence to
Scarpa and his masterpiece at the Querini Stampalia palace, where he
had turned convention on its head by inviting the high tides (aqua
alta) into the building instead of trying to barricade it out. This is
what Eve is reminded of, and talks about, when confronted with a small
brick building (which I am sure many people here will recognise) from
which a small stream flows out and into a forest. That section, which
is called "Descent to the Underworld", in which realities nest within
one another, is my favourite bit of the book, but like other
experimental parts which I personally found most interesting, like the
Illiad parody I posted earlier (death of Hagstor, #107), has never once
been noticed in a review.
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #230 of 367: To non-WELL members (indra) Fri 5 Nov 99 02:56
    
Thanks to <wjamesau> for #228. That's where all the bitching and
mithering about this topic is going on, safe in a WELL-only conf where
you can't read it. 

Here's some stuff I posted in there:

        news 2528: News from Around the Well (6/1/1999+)
     #1254 of 1256: Indra Sinha (indra) Fri 05 Nov '99 (02:17 AM)

        Ho hum, so this where you're all slagging off inkwell.vue topic                 52,
safe where the outside world can't see you. Hahahahahahaha!

        I wish you'd said all this there, given Geno and I a chance to
        respond. But don't worry, I guess the WELL is safe enough from
        barbarian attack, cos you can pull up the drawbridge, hide behind
        the palisades, and peep out from time to time to see if Geno's 
        out there.  

        The interview ends today and I am desperately behind with my new
        book (fiction, set mostly in India, not a word about modems,
        cyberspace or anything of that sort) so I don't have time for it
        any more anyway although I'll look in from time to time.

        I did suggest to Cynthia some days ago that she might just like to
        scrub the whole topic :), but she didn't, so there.

        Thank you Cynthia, David, Reva, Lizabeth, for putting up with me
        and my guests for the past fortnight. You can relax now.


news 2528: News from Around the Well (6/1/1999+)
     #1255 of 1256: Chris Hanson (chanson) Fri 05 Nov '99 (02:20 AM)

        RE the allegedly worthwhile content of <inkwell.vue.52>, I
        suspect there may be a bunch of us who'd like to read the
        "worthwhile" posts without having to slog through the dross as 
        well.  If one of the hosts or someone else were to post an extract
        of only the "worthwhile" posts somewhere, maybe in <arch.>, I'd
        sure appreciate it.  (Of course the topic itself should be linked
        there too.)


news 2528: News from Around the Well (6/1/1999+)
     #1256 of 1256: Indra Sinha (indra) Fri 05 Nov '99 (02:38 AM)

     Hey, inkwell.vue hosts, please don't take <chanson>'s suggestion.
        Who's going to decide which are the "worthwhile posts"? Take my
        word for it. On their own, there are *no* worthwhile bits. 

        The interview should be read as a whole, garbage, puerility (by
        the way that was my description of JSF's posts) and all, because
        that's just how it is. The whole point of my fucking book is that
        by editing reality to suit our preconceptions, by editing out the
        pain and aggravation and anything that disturbs us, we also
        cleverly manage not to see things like Bhopal, and then when
        something opens our eyes, we say "Oh dear, I didn't realise it 
        was happening".


Boy, they *fucking hate* us! :)

I love it! Geno, you're a star. My dear old mate, never change, never
die. You're one of the few sane creatures in this insane world.
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #231 of 367: Reva Basch (reva) Fri 5 Nov 99 06:14
    
A comment from the Net:

indra

I am one of the "silent" thousands.  It think the whole topic has been
brilliant, Jesus and all.  It is this kind of intelligent and chaotic
conversation which may hasten my return to the Well (azure-sky in a previous
life).  I thought vasudha's posts were great too.

keryn williams
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #232 of 367: Jon Jackson (jonj) Fri 5 Nov 99 08:48
    
<<safe in a WELL-only conf where you can't read it.

Oh please.   Obviously you know nothing about the Well.
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #233 of 367: Sathyu Sarangi (sathyu-bhai) Fri 5 Nov 99 09:57
    
being in the other hemisphere i lose out on timing. indra, i saw your
msg much too late.anyway, this was first experience in conferencing and
i liked it immensely.thanks everybody.
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #234 of 367: Jon Jackson (jonj) Fri 5 Nov 99 10:15
    
Um.  The above post should have ended after Oh please.
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #235 of 367: Jesus Slut Fucker (jesuschrist) Fri 5 Nov 99 10:27
    

Whomever is sending me those naked pictures of David Gans, please
stop. I promise to be good from now on.





-Jesus
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #236 of 367: re #232 (indra) Fri 5 Nov 99 10:53
    
...obviously! :)

But why not come here and do your complaining? I can take it.
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #237 of 367: Supper time (indra) Fri 5 Nov 99 13:22
    
Just posted a version of this in the mysterious News conference:

Wiggly, thanks for that comment (1273). David (1272) too, thanks for
enduring Geno's gibes with good humour. The Well hasn't silenced me.
I'll admit to not knowing very much about its present culture
(although
I've been a member, with one break, since some time early in the
decade -- I haven't looked in much for years).

I am utterly fascinated by the hornet's nest my interview seems to
have stirred up here. Here's my tuppence worth.

First Sharon, (if you were English I'd have to call you Shazza, so
give thanks for small mercies). Sharon, don't be silly, of course I
don't "equate" Jesus Slut Fucker's rantings with the suffering of
people in Bhopal. I founded the Bhopal Medical Appeal which opened a
free clinic there. I personally know many of the people receiving care.
I don't know anything that I could equate to their situation. I do
know that at times I have felt the kind of anger and frustration that I
imagine turns people into terrorists. 

As for Geno, you think he's an asshole. Of course he is. But there's
another side to him that never emerged here (probably because people
 went rabid the moment he went into his Slut Fucker routine and he
loves that). I wish he had shown us something of the other side, but he
really does enjoy being an asshole. The best thing about him is that
he
is always full of laughter. I like Geno, I have known him a long time
and find him a complex, interesting character. Apart from being a
friend, he's a natural subject for a writer who is interested in
people. In the book I tried to bring out his conflicts -- how he would
happily mailbomb people in Fidonet he didn't like, but went berserk
when someone published instructions for making a nail bomb in a NuKE
virus journal. 

        [7/100]  Echo area 18 ... Nuke The World        
        From:    Gene Paris                 Sent        
        To:      Rock Steady                Msg #7, Sep-03-93 09:17:5
        Subject: YOU SUCK

        "Have you ever seen the end results of a bomb? As a health 
      care worker in a large hospital I have. Two years ago I 
      seen the results of a pipe bomb that some other irresponsible
      asswipe planted. Two patients came to our ICU more dead than 
      alive and passed away in a matter of hours. A 17 year old girl 
      who was just walking down the street in front of the house 
      (crack house) caught a quarter inch piece of pipe in the 
      back of her neck. She will never walk or be able to move her 
      arms again. She shits all over herself because she has no 
      bowel control. I wish that every worthless piece of shit that
      distributes this kind of trash would have to help take care 
      of her for a month or two. Perhaps then you could begin to 
      see the consequences of your actions. You make me sick."

The inkwell.vue interview was about my book Cybergypsies. Geno and 
the victims of Bhopal have in common that they were both part of my
online/offline life -- the book was in part about the weirdness of
simultaneously hobnobbing with such varied folk -- but if I could I
would love to get Geno out to Bhopal to help some people I know there
whose symptoms are very like those of the girl he looked after.

So Sharon, calm down, do. Instead of posting more angry remarks, tell
me why has this made you so upset? I'm genuinely interested.

Jonj thinks I do myself further damage every time I post. Well, tant
pis. What else can I do but be myself? Surely you didn't expect me to
come and here and behave like a salesman? But Jon, what I really want
to know is, why do you want Lizabeth to "go butt a stump"? In fact
what
does it mean? It's a wonderful expression and I want to use it. 

Lizabeth, thank you again for kicking off the interview, but why not
just ignore, or shrug off Geno's childish insults? He insulted me too
-- if memory serves, he opened by stating that I wear women's
underwear, and ended by suggesting that I pleasure my wife with a
300,000 volt stun gun -- but so what? I just laughed. Why not?  

What are all the politics that seem to be going on here? Do I detect a
kind of unease about what the Well used to be/ought to be/maybe isn't
any more? How many of you are there posting regularly in all the
conferences? Have you got bored with each other? How do you see the
Well in relation to the wider net? If anyone wants to email me answers
instead of posting here, please send mail to bear@cybergysies.com.
         
Finally -- for I must go and have my supper -- Cynthia emailed me to
ask if I was upset with what was happening on the "News" topic, and I
said no. Actually, I thought it was very funny. And the reason is
probably that *you're* all so damn serious. For fuck's sake, it's only
a book. It's only the Well. It's only Geno and Magnus and Lilith and
Sathyu and me. 
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #238 of 367: email address error (indra) Fri 5 Nov 99 13:24
    
in the previous message the email address should be:

bear@cybergypsies.com
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #239 of 367: (jeffk) O o . o O (jeffk) Fri 5 Nov 99 14:19
    
I am thinking heavily of purchasing this book.  Infact, it's about to be on
its way from Amazon.com.  One thing can definetly be said for this topic,
it's breathed some life into some people... for better or worse.
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #240 of 367: Marguerite Chandl (vasudha) Fri 5 Nov 99 15:52
    <scribbled by vasudha Fri 5 Nov 99 16:36>
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #241 of 367: Marguerite Chandler (vasudha) Fri 5 Nov 99 16:01
    <scribbled by vasudha Fri 5 Nov 99 16:37>
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #242 of 367: Marguerite Chandler (vasudha) Fri 5 Nov 99 16:21
    <scribbled by vasudha Fri 5 Nov 99 16:37>
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #243 of 367: little modem on the prairie (lizabeth) Fri 5 Nov 99 16:29
    

1) Yes, you are mistaken.

2) You have taken my Well posts and put them in a world-readable conference.
This is against the intent of YOYOWs. Please erase my posts from other non-
world-readable conferences immediately.

3) The conversation in News is being mischaracterized.
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #244 of 367: Marguerite Chandler (vasudha) Fri 5 Nov 99 16:32
    <scribbled by vasudha Fri 5 Nov 99 16:47>
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #245 of 367: Cant We Just Get Along (vasudha) Fri 5 Nov 99 16:49
    

<Using these posts from News under fair use doctrine.>
Believe this would've been against WELL protocol
since <lizbeth> requested i not quote her

To paraphrase from memory. She thought he was
dominating the topic and she didn't like him
attacking people.


        Didn't bother me. As soon as I saw <lizabeth>
        deride him <#24> I had an ominous feeling.
        I thought he was joking, playing a role, and
        didn't understand why she was putting him down.

        My point is that I think it was a culture clash
        issue. In <lisabeth>'s bio is says she is in a
        ministry of some kind. I assume this refers to
        Christianity. If I had my God made fun of I think
        I would get pretty upset myself.

        Is this right Lizabeth? Or did i misread?
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #246 of 367: Cant We Just Get Along (vasudha) Fri 5 Nov 99 16:51
    

        I also like to censor people when I get insulted.
        That was the major disaster on the audio BBS
        that I attempted to moderate.

        Not saying she *was.* But *if* she did or was
        I wouldn't blame her at all for it. That's normal
        and natural and good probably. It's a survival
        instinct. This could seem especialy true since
        JSF didn't seem to have a lot to say or to really
        open up much.

        But, then again, to get him to open up insulting
        him back was, in retrospect, probably not the best
        tactic.

        However, our interviewer is not expected to be
        a master psychologist or even care. Since
        she's a voluenteer she didn't have to put up
        with it. Maybe she should've been paid to take
        the abuse?
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #247 of 367: Cant We Just Get Along (vasudha) Fri 5 Nov 99 16:52
    

        I do sympathize with <lizabeth>. I agree with some
        other poster in <News> (I think David Gans) that if
        she had just ignored it and done the interview
        around it I would have probably felt less
        distracted. However there is no blame for her
        quite justified emotional reaction.

        I do believe <lisabeth> intimated in her post
        that she was having other problems with the
        interview. I showed it to a friend yesterday and I
        had to really point things out to him since he
        couldn't find where the answers followed the
        questions. And he's a really smart guy. So there
        was, to me, this feeling of people talking around
        each other and not connecting. I would've written
        more and tried to connect myself except that the
        lines of inquiry I wanted to travel down were
        probably not completely germane to the topic.
        (Mostly I just like to talk about me)  :)

        I became confused (and confusing I am sure) with
        the few posts I *was* able to write, because of
        distractions in my own life right now.

        Thanks to keryn who gave the compliment. However,
        when I went and reread one of my posts I realized I
        achieved virtually zero coherence, from what I
        could tell.

        So, I didn't want to get in trouble or ruin
        anything by posting along lines of my own.
        Or to try in some way to focus things in my own
        way, when I myself seemed to have serious trouble
        focusing. And when I hadn't even finished the book.
        [page 130 or so now]. If I'd finished the book I
        may have then felt more confident discussing it.
        Doy.
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #248 of 367: Cant We Just Get Along (vasudha) Fri 5 Nov 99 16:54
    

        It seems she says that it wasn't his
        posts that bothered her per se but she thought they
        distracted from the topic.

        What ensued sorta embodies the Tar Baby principal
        of on-line interaction. IMHO.

        I don't even think the fight that came out of it
        was that distracting. My speech is already kinda
        chilled anyway because I've been roasted off of
        these systems myself <bigwookie.net>. And I wasn't
        welcomed on Echo nor did I feel half as comfortable
        there as I do on the WELL.  I am grateful for the
        WELL and for the people on it. I don't want to be
        roasted off or have things become so unpleasant
        that it is easier to just move on. So therefore I
        am very careful, as much as I can be, to try not to
        offend people and hope I can get along.
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #249 of 367: Apology to Lizabeth (vasudha) Fri 5 Nov 99 17:01
    

        I am too prudent to insult JSF. I do feel bad
        sitting around watching while he insults others.
        It does make me slightly uncomfortable to find
        it amusing. Sorta like what <lizabeth> mentioned
        (perhaps) when she said <flame.ind> was a guilty
        pleasure. I won't go that far. Since it's against
        my religion to feel guilty. However, it did make
        me feel like I was a collaborator in someone else's
        injury. I am sorry, Elizabeth, both for that and
        for what you had to bear since I believe it was as
        painful for you as you intimated.

        I have felt at home on the WELL for two years now
        and am very happy about that. I wasn't as welcomed
        or as happy in other "places." And as I said am
        very happy with it. I like the "respect" value.
        That is very important to me. I am sorry if I
        appeared at any time to disrespect <lisabeth> by
        not attacking JSF. Or by neglecting to come to her
        defense.

        Isn't it ironic - - if I was a Christian, not a
        Hindu, I probably would have? To be honest.
        But I really truly thought her post #24 was unwise.
  
inkwell.vue.52 : Indra Sinha: Cybergypsies: Lust, War & Betrayal on the Electronic Frontier
permalink #250 of 367: Negative Attention (vasudha) Fri 5 Nov 99 17:04
    

<Indra> says:

(probably because people went rabid the moment he
went into his Slut Fucker routine and he loves
 that)

        Figured that. Loves to create a scene.
        Garner attention. Show other's intolerence.
        It was pretty easy for him to accomplish this.
        Who's being puerile?
  

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