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John Schwartz and Paula Span: State of the News 2024
permalink #226 of 280: Inkwell Co-Host (jonl) Sun 11 Feb 24 08:50
permalink #226 of 280: Inkwell Co-Host (jonl) Sun 11 Feb 24 08:50
In <123> I mentioned the International Symposium on Online Journalism, but I failed to mention that there's a virtual participation option for $25 (that's early bird cost - increases to $30 tomorrow). <https://isoj.org/> Registration is at <https://cvent.utexas.edu/event/20ec90ec-ed20-4cfb-9640-4b97dc9b0a51/regProcess Step1>
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John Schwartz and Paula Span: State of the News 2024
permalink #227 of 280: Axon (axon) Sun 11 Feb 24 09:09
permalink #227 of 280: Axon (axon) Sun 11 Feb 24 09:09
>blaming the mainstream media The mainstream media *is* to blame. >quitting implies that the problem is hopeless corruption That *is* the problem. 95% of media properties, from left to right, from shit to shinola, are controlled by a handful of corporate interests. The industry as a whole is an unelected elite exercising enormous influence, enjoying extraordinary constitutional protections, and accountable solely to capital. The Times, in particular, is the chronicle of the ownership class, and cynically champions its interests and priorities. It isn't in competition with Gannett for the middlebrow mind; it's competing with the WSJ for high net worth eyeballs. >stay, criticize, and demand better Attention, we profess (per Ronald Heifetz), is the currency. In the marketplace for anything, when a supplier consistently fails to deliver value for money (or attention), you don't stick with them; you seek a more responsive, more intrepid supplier. That's the only critique the suits can quantify and respond to. We banished the Times from our media diet years ago chez nous, and are fitter citizens for it. The Post is hanging by a thread, as well. If you continually piss on my leg and tell me it's raining, you forfeit credibility and lose wallet share. And you deserve to. The information-as-a-public-good industry as a whole faces serious structural challenges in the confirmation-bias-on-demand era, but they are not made more manageable by sacrificing reliability on the altar of private equity in exchange for patronage from privilege. >I'd like to see them continue to make better choices. As would I. If they do so, they will earn my resumed attention. In the meantime, sources of more reliable and less biased journalism offer compelling demands on my consideration, and there are only so many hours in a news cycle.
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John Schwartz and Paula Span: State of the News 2024
permalink #228 of 280: David Gans (tnf) Sun 11 Feb 24 09:11
permalink #228 of 280: David Gans (tnf) Sun 11 Feb 24 09:11
It's the horse race versus the stakes. And goddammit, the horse race is ahead by a dozen lengths.
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John Schwartz and Paula Span: State of the News 2024
permalink #229 of 280: david gault (dgault) Sun 11 Feb 24 09:53
permalink #229 of 280: david gault (dgault) Sun 11 Feb 24 09:53
GO AXON!!
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John Schwartz and Paula Span: State of the News 2024
permalink #230 of 280: david gault (dgault) Sun 11 Feb 24 09:55
permalink #230 of 280: david gault (dgault) Sun 11 Feb 24 09:55
and thanks Matisse for the micropayment explanation
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John Schwartz and Paula Span: State of the News 2024
permalink #231 of 280: Tiffany Lee Brown (magdalen) Sun 11 Feb 24 14:45
permalink #231 of 280: Tiffany Lee Brown (magdalen) Sun 11 Feb 24 14:45
nice rant, axon! have we talked in here, yet, about how Search figures in? i remember a time when my search engine results pages (SERPs) from Google were pretty useful. though i understood and somewhat resented the implications for privacy, political divisiveness, etc., it was clear that because Google "knew" me, it was providing me with appropriate search results. am i going to click on "Obama's Birth Certificate: Truly Fake?" on weirdunknownwebsite.com , even if it's the first result? no. Google knows me better than that. Google's going to give me something from Harvard, something from the NYTimes or SF Gate, etc. then that stopped. whether i'm logged in or not, Google feeds me content mill sites as most of my first page of SERPs. i was unable to find the artcle detailing how Google crossed over, from keeping its advertising and search divisions separate, to ensuring that advertisers ranked higher on SERPs -- not just in the advertisements displayed, but in all content, all results being displayed. like i said, real news outlets rarely appear on that first page, if at all. it looks to me like Google is trying to starve out the legitimate news organizations, instead of sticking to its previous plans (steal the content created by real news organizations, reveal pertinent information as "snippets" in SERPs and in other ways; provide no compensation to the news orgs for helpfully snagging their content). is this intentional? is it stupid? (if there is no one left to report the news, what will you feed the roaming Internet users who are browsing around looking for a news snack?) are news orgs responding appropriately to this threat? interesting blog post on SEO basics: https://www.searchenginejournal.com/seo/seo-history/
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John Schwartz and Paula Span: State of the News 2024
permalink #232 of 280: Paul Belserene (paulbel) Sun 11 Feb 24 15:02
permalink #232 of 280: Paul Belserene (paulbel) Sun 11 Feb 24 15:02
>Micropayments involves having a secure way to move currency between these systems as very high volume and very low cost per transaction. It is an entirely new type of infrastructure still very much in its infancy. Don't banks already have this kind of infrastructure within their own institutions and in bank-to-bank transactions?
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John Schwartz and Paula Span: State of the News 2024
permalink #233 of 280: Betsy Schwartz (betsys) Sun 11 Feb 24 15:17
permalink #233 of 280: Betsy Schwartz (betsys) Sun 11 Feb 24 15:17
Should also be possible to 'batch' these transactions. Sending a penny transaction might be cost-prohibitive, but sending a day's worth might not be. And one way to do it might involve a browser getting preloaded with a certain amount of verified cash.. but that's speculating about infrastructure. I *would* like to see the NYTimes and other papers stop pulling their punches on Trump.
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John Schwartz and Paula Span: State of the News 2024
permalink #234 of 280: Virtual Sea Monkey (karish) Sun 11 Feb 24 16:22
permalink #234 of 280: Virtual Sea Monkey (karish) Sun 11 Feb 24 16:22
Support for micropayments needs to handle payments that are at least three orders of magnitude smaller than bank payments, at speeds that are five orders of magnitude as fast. Phone company billing infrastructure is closer to what's needed. The billing infrastructure for ads on the web is even closer. It counts user clicks on ads and assigns a payment based on each click, thousands of times a second. <betsys>, the batch of data for a day's worth of transactions would be very large. The software would have to process transactions for many users, many publishers, and many different prices based on what property was read, just as web ads are handled. There's a lot of work to do whether it's done on a data stream or on a batch.
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John Schwartz and Paula Span: State of the News 2024
permalink #235 of 280: david gault (dgault) Sun 11 Feb 24 16:38
permalink #235 of 280: david gault (dgault) Sun 11 Feb 24 16:38
the last 4 posters are going to pay a penalty for not watching the Super Bowl.
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John Schwartz and Paula Span: State of the News 2024
permalink #236 of 280: Axon (axon) Sun 11 Feb 24 16:47
permalink #236 of 280: Axon (axon) Sun 11 Feb 24 16:47
I would expect to see a trusted third party clearinghouse vendor that would simply validate the good standing of the user as they access the content, incrementing the user account by the agreed upon tariff per transaction, debiting the user's payment method monthly, and settling outstanding balances with providers overnight. The clearinghouse could either scrape the tariff for profit margin, or charge a monthly service fee, likely tiered for varying levels of usage. Or both, of course.
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John Schwartz and Paula Span: State of the News 2024
permalink #237 of 280: Axon (axon) Sun 11 Feb 24 16:50
permalink #237 of 280: Axon (axon) Sun 11 Feb 24 16:50
>not watching the Super Bowl Not too hard to compare and keep track of the game. KC's D is running out of steam.
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John Schwartz and Paula Span: State of the News 2024
permalink #238 of 280: Axon (axon) Sun 11 Feb 24 16:51
permalink #238 of 280: Axon (axon) Sun 11 Feb 24 16:51
compare s/b compose...
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John Schwartz and Paula Span: State of the News 2024
permalink #239 of 280: POOR TASTE IN KISS-WRITING (jswatz) Sun 11 Feb 24 19:22
permalink #239 of 280: POOR TASTE IN KISS-WRITING (jswatz) Sun 11 Feb 24 19:22
Axon, we disagree. I think the media still needs to learn a lot about countering disinformation and dealing with crazy-ass, evil politicians. But the idea that they are on the team for Trump because of their owners or investors goes against every experience I ever had in nearly 40 years in newsrooms. By the way, the NYT homepage at the moment has three stories at the top on Trump's vile NATO comments. But if you've dropped the NYT from your media diet, you probably won't see that or know about it. You'll only hear about the things that the Times has done that pisses the people in your social networks off.
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John Schwartz and Paula Span: State of the News 2024
permalink #240 of 280: John Coate (tex) Sun 11 Feb 24 20:44
permalink #240 of 280: John Coate (tex) Sun 11 Feb 24 20:44
Good for them for doing the right thing. The thing they should be doing every day.
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John Schwartz and Paula Span: State of the News 2024
permalink #241 of 280: Axon (axon) Sun 11 Feb 24 21:30
permalink #241 of 280: Axon (axon) Sun 11 Feb 24 21:30
>the idea that they are on the team for Trump I don't think they are. I think that they are biased for the interests of Capital, which only tangentially intersect with the interests of Trump. I think they are biased against the ambitions of reformers generally, liberals as a class, and Joe Biden specifically this cycle, because they pose a persistent threat to the interests of Capital, and I think that bias is evident in their work product. Moreover, I think that's the case with the industry as a whole, notwithstanding the hard work and dedication of the many gifted front line journalists who gather the grist for the mill, but I seriously doubt there is an EIC in the business without one foot on the wrong side of the Chinese Wall. The result at the end of each news cycle, the aggregate deliverable, has a hundreds of tiny microthumbs on dozens of microgram scales incrementally nudging a consensus narrative favorable to its continuing influence in public affairs and to the stakeholders in the economic system whereby it prospers. It uses bothsidesism to feign a simulacrum of objectivity, while keeping a steady hand on the tiller. Attention may be the currency, but semiotics is the commodity traded. We subscribe to a particular media property not because it agrees with us, but so we can belong to its tribe. I have a tribe of my own devising. One of the reasons I signed up for Twitter when it first opened its doors, and why I still check in with it pretty much daily, is so I can follow front line reporters in whom I have confidence. I don't have to join their tribe, and if that confidence wanes, unfollowing them is trivial. I do value the folks who toil in the vineyard, and appreciate their observations, when they have the freedom to share them candidly. But I have no confidence in what happens to their work once it enters the editorial samsara prior to press or air. I harbor this prejudice no less fervently for properties professing nominally liberal, progressive, or left wing perspectives. They are, like all the other properties in the mediascape, captived by the priorities of the Ruling Class, FDIC. If consensual self government is to be hung and buried, it is the news media who will cheerfully supply the shovels and rope. A free press is the fulcrum of liberty. We really ought to get us one of those. What we have here is a fee press.
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John Schwartz and Paula Span: State of the News 2024
permalink #242 of 280: Ron Levin (eclectic2) Sun 11 Feb 24 22:02
permalink #242 of 280: Ron Levin (eclectic2) Sun 11 Feb 24 22:02
Right on. Power to the people! As long as those filthy capitalist running dogs control the means of production, the people will never be free.
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John Schwartz and Paula Span: State of the News 2024
permalink #243 of 280: Andrew Alden (alden) Sun 11 Feb 24 22:05
permalink #243 of 280: Andrew Alden (alden) Sun 11 Feb 24 22:05
It's very plausible and might even be true, unlike your cliche.
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John Schwartz and Paula Span: State of the News 2024
permalink #244 of 280: Ron Levin (eclectic2) Sun 11 Feb 24 22:11
permalink #244 of 280: Ron Levin (eclectic2) Sun 11 Feb 24 22:11
No, it's not true, or anything close to true. It's a cynical, anti-capitalist conspiracy theory that not only betrays a fundamental lack of knowledge of how a serious, professional news organization is run, but of human nature itself. But that's just my opinion. Maybe the entire profession is utterly corrupt. Who knows?
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John Schwartz and Paula Span: State of the News 2024
permalink #245 of 280: Gary Nolan (gnolan) Sun 11 Feb 24 22:17
permalink #245 of 280: Gary Nolan (gnolan) Sun 11 Feb 24 22:17
Much as I respect <axon>'s analysis I at times suspect that generating fear as a method of keeping readers engaged is simple enough motivation for news organizations. It feels like a game of chicken with the NYT, in this case titrating the bad news about Biden against the good sense of the American voters.
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John Schwartz and Paula Span: State of the News 2024
permalink #246 of 280: Tiffany Lee Brown (magdalen) Mon 12 Feb 24 06:39
permalink #246 of 280: Tiffany Lee Brown (magdalen) Mon 12 Feb 24 06:39
well,there's no conspiracy theory at the heart of economic reality. late capitalism may suck, but it is not some fringe conspiracy concept. it's all right in front of us for us to see, comprehend, and respond to. i'm not talking "does the NYT cover Trump too much" -- though, yes, i believe it does, and i place my little subscriber vote by rarely clicking through on any item containing the word Trump in the headline (you can bet your pointy little head AND your orange fake tan that NYT is keeping track of that kind of clickthrough, as they experiment with different headlines throughout the life of an article online). i'm talking good old-fashioned marketing, and bad new-fashioned marketing to go along with it. like many people who love and practice journalism and creative writing, i make most of my living working on other things, things that pay well even for freelancers. things like... marketing. web content. egad. yes, there are "real" and sincere, hard-working journalists out there, mostly on staff at those very few remaining serious news organizations we've been discussing here. the assignments they receive are based in part (a large part) on whether the publication in question can afford to cover that item, and what the ROI will be on it. (Return On Investment.) their opinion pieces, fluff, lifestyle coverage, and sports will largely be determined by the cost of the story -- cheaper, ain't it, to write about fashion than to report an investigative piece? -- and by clickthroughs and engagement. if no one engages, did the tree fall in the forest? well, who cares. engagement sells. it sells ads and it sells digital subscriptions. so i think axon has it right in some ways. significant ways. ignoring his comments or assuming they are fringe, inaccurate, inconceivable, would be a mistake. the pride and arrogance of journalism, the conviction that journalism is great and surely everyone can see its greatness -- that's contributed to the fall of our former news industry. for every 100 of us that are passionate enough about journalism in its various forms to work for shitty wages when we could be making bank doing something else with our formidable critical thinking skills there are 900 regular Americans going, "there's something fishy about the news media." and it's not all Rupert Murdoch's fault, nor Bannon's. it's also ours.
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John Schwartz and Paula Span: State of the News 2024
permalink #247 of 280: Emily Gertz (emilyg) Mon 12 Feb 24 08:34
permalink #247 of 280: Emily Gertz (emilyg) Mon 12 Feb 24 08:34
I agree overall with axon's analysis, but I think his and my views on why things are this way differ significantly. What I think is that living in capitalism unconsciously affect journalists' choices in what gets reported, how it gets edited, what questions we ask, and, often, how well our audiences understand the stakes of a given situation. I encounter this mindset all the time in myself, such as when I ask a reporter to please add (and why didn't you include it in the FIRST draft, dammit?) what the projected cost is of building this pipeline or that LNG plant, or properly shutting down State X's gajillion abandoned oil and gas wells in the Permian Basin, or taking care of millions of children in the ER with asthma attacks, and the estimated lost work hours for their parent or caregivers. Dollar figures help convey to readers what the scale of the project or problem is - full stop. Also, in the USA - on many beats, the dollar terms are often an intrinsic part of the story. Most middle-of-the -road outlets - the scale might be (from L to R, for lack of a better concept) from The Guardian to The NYT to The NY Post - do not privilege costs over benefits. Which is to say, they report from the POV that society should not hurt people just because it's cheaper than keeping them safe and healthy. But cost/benefit analysis is baked into capitalism, and we are baking in capitalism, too - figuratively and literally. For my part, I think that omitting all capitalist values in the journalism I produce risks irrelevancy. I just try to be awake about how I do it and why. On another topic: Tiff, I read fashion reporting! How people present themselves to the world, and why, is a fascinating topic, One of the most memorable articles I've ever read is Robin Givens's analysis of the silk scarves Marie Yovanovitch wore to her appearances before Congress: https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2019/11/15/marie-yovanovitchs-eagles- sabers-glittering-flag-spoke-before-her-testimony-began/
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John Schwartz and Paula Span: State of the News 2024
permalink #248 of 280: Renshin Bunce (renshin) Mon 12 Feb 24 09:54
permalink #248 of 280: Renshin Bunce (renshin) Mon 12 Feb 24 09:54
Claire Malone has a long piece about the current state of media in The New Yorker that might be interesting to some here. She doesn't present any single solution, offers several avenues, and of course the Times is prominent in her piece as it is here. She attributes its success to turning itself into a lifestyle publication Is the Media Prepared for an Extinction-Level Event? https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-weekend-essay/is-the-media-prepared-for-an- extinction-level-event
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John Schwartz and Paula Span: State of the News 2024
permalink #249 of 280: Emily Gertz (emilyg) Mon 12 Feb 24 10:02
permalink #249 of 280: Emily Gertz (emilyg) Mon 12 Feb 24 10:02
Regarding how most large, mainstream outlets are covering the presidential election: I am among the dismayed. Yet at the same time, since the reckonings of 2016 and 2020, there are a lot of news outlets and projects trying to do things differently and better, both inside their own offices and in how they report the news. Some of them have been mentioned during this discussion. I work with some of these people. Pointing that out is not my attempt to apologize for all of journalism and its errors. It's my attempt to point out that there ARE others things we can talk about, when we choose to.
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John Schwartz and Paula Span: State of the News 2024
permalink #250 of 280: Paula Span (pspan) Mon 12 Feb 24 11:47
permalink #250 of 280: Paula Span (pspan) Mon 12 Feb 24 11:47
In my experience, most editors in chief are firmly on the right side of the supposed Wall between editorial and the business folks. More than used to be. At the Post, for instance, Ben Bradlee was famously friendly with JFK and other politicians (way more than with corporate titans). His successor, Leonard Downie, managing editor and then editor, famously never even registered to vote, because that was public information and he thought readers and the public would think the Post's coverage biased if they knew he was an R, a D or even an I. I find that extreme -- reporters remain citizens, and even if they get bounced for taking public positions (as a NYT writer was a few months back for signing a public statement on Gaza) and are forbidden to make campaign contributions, they should still be able to vote, at the least. Downie's successors, editors at the other major broadcast and print outlets, are pretty scrupulous about what they do and say, on the theory that the appearance of impropriety is as damning as impropriety itself. I'll reject that particular part of Axon's analysis.
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