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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #326 of 578: Drew Trott (druid) Wed 6 Nov 24 17:28
permalink #326 of 578: Drew Trott (druid) Wed 6 Nov 24 17:28
The only reason I can think of to leave is that it could be seen as voting with my feet. I have a history of walking out of classes, off jobs, etc., in protest. But who would I be protesting *to*? The fascists would say good riddance. This *is* my country, alien as it seems right now. I can't see going anywhere else.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #327 of 578: a (coiro) Wed 6 Nov 24 17:39
permalink #327 of 578: a (coiro) Wed 6 Nov 24 17:39
I guess I don't feel any more that it's my country. It's like that ancient sketch about the apartment house that only stood as long as the tenants believed in it. I believed in the potential for a better country. I believed the arc of the moral universe bent toward justice. I thought more people cared about justice than didn't. I thought our education system could be repaired, bent and broken as it was. I don't believe any of that now. How is the country going to get better now for the people for whom it was never very good to begin with? For anyone, actually, other than those worth ten figures and up? Where is justice, where is the majority who care about it? Who's going to give a shit about fixing the public schools now, since they're not a profit center? As long as those things at least seemed possible, this was my country. It never will be again; this SCOTUS will outlive me. The oligarchy will remain untouchable. Crooks and rapists will pay no price. As of today I'm a resident alien.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #328 of 578: Jennifer Powell (jnfr) Wed 6 Nov 24 17:56
permalink #328 of 578: Jennifer Powell (jnfr) Wed 6 Nov 24 17:56
Yeah, that makes total sense to me.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #329 of 578: Axon (axon) Wed 6 Nov 24 17:57
permalink #329 of 578: Axon (axon) Wed 6 Nov 24 17:57
I'm not leaving to protest. I'm leaving for the same reason most refugees leave; to escape a toxic, dangerous, and oppressive government and hostile society in pursuit of freedom and opportunity. I'm leaving because I'm on the far side of three score and ten, and don't want to live in a shithole country with corrupt rulers and random bullies enforcing a morality code I don't respect in my remaining years. I'm fairly well traveled, and I've found lots of places I could live quite happily, all over the world. I've never been very fond of this nation, although I've found some pleasant enough corners of it. I had no interest in fighting for it in Vietnam, and I have even less interest in fighting for it in Lane County. Not when there is a gorgeous natural paradise I can enjoy peaceably. This nation was founded by propertied white males for the comfort, safety and convenience of the same, forcing the prior inhabitants off the land at gunpoint, and developing it through the private ownership of human beings. However noble their intentions might have been in opposing the monarchy, this country is still stolen property, soaked in blood, and still run for the benefit of propertied white males. The fact that I am a propertied white male doesn't really alter the calculus a bit. I have no sentiment or pride in its origin narrative. It is a criminal enterprise at national scale. The truth is that we could stay here and very likely never suffer any of the malignant mayhem promised by the party of pallor. But it would be depressing, and that's not how I want to spend my golden years. I have agency, and resources, and I'm going to exercise both for the highest quality of life I can find. It is not without costs and sacrifices, however, and I resent that I must undertake them because a defective political system threw a rod right through the crankcase, but it's like the rain; complaining doesn't make it any drier. Revolution is a younger man's game.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #330 of 578: David Turoff (condorito) Wed 6 Nov 24 18:03
permalink #330 of 578: David Turoff (condorito) Wed 6 Nov 24 18:03
<As of today I'm a resident alien.> I feel the same, but have felt something like that most of my life (since Nixon, at least).
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #331 of 578: David Turoff (condorito) Wed 6 Nov 24 18:08
permalink #331 of 578: David Turoff (condorito) Wed 6 Nov 24 18:08
And this: <...a shithole country with corrupt rulers and random bullies enforcing a morality code I don't respect...founded by propertied white males for the comfort, safety and convenience of the same, forcing the prior inhabitants off the land at gunpoint, and developing it through the private ownership of human beings...stolen property, soaked in blood, and still run for the benefit of propertied white males.> Truer words have never been typed.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #332 of 578: a (coiro) Wed 6 Nov 24 18:14
permalink #332 of 578: a (coiro) Wed 6 Nov 24 18:14
Can't argue with a single word. Just posted this over in <news.>. And I'm so sorry for the Twitter link, but I can't find this anywhere else. The cover of the New European is a stunner. <https://x.com/TheNewEuropean/status/1854129503263502361>
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #333 of 578: Axon (axon) Wed 6 Nov 24 18:16
permalink #333 of 578: Axon (axon) Wed 6 Nov 24 18:16
Vivid.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #334 of 578: Elizabeth Churchill (leroyleroy) Wed 6 Nov 24 18:16
permalink #334 of 578: Elizabeth Churchill (leroyleroy) Wed 6 Nov 24 18:16
Maybe its time to wake up expat.ind. Being able to leave the US is a privilege many dont have, but staying in the US is also a privilege that not everyone has, not if they want to survive.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #335 of 578: Celia Chapman (lark) Wed 6 Nov 24 18:20
permalink #335 of 578: Celia Chapman (lark) Wed 6 Nov 24 18:20
I dont want to leave. If there were an easy way to do it I might. I might become more politically active. I havent been because I work for a company that is regulated by the SEC, and there are a lot of things I cant do because of that. But I think Im going to figure out how Id like to be involved and then have a talk with our compliance officer.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #336 of 578: Virtual Sea Monkey (karish) Wed 6 Nov 24 18:21
permalink #336 of 578: Virtual Sea Monkey (karish) Wed 6 Nov 24 18:21
There's important work to do here in the US. A peaceful but determined resistance to Trump must start now Robert Reich <https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/nov/06/election-trump-president -resistance-america>
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #337 of 578: Ron Levin (eclectic2) Wed 6 Nov 24 18:55
permalink #337 of 578: Ron Levin (eclectic2) Wed 6 Nov 24 18:55
<As long as those things at least seemed possible, this was my country> I think those things are still possible; the chances of them happening over the next four years, however, have probably gone down a bit. Trump is going to try and tear apart the social fabric, corrupt the government, incite violence, and end democracy. He's going to be successful, at least to some degree. The resistance will help determine to what degree, and who'll rebuild our country after whatever he manages to do finally comes to an end. I hope to be a part of that, however small.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #338 of 578: a (coiro) Wed 6 Nov 24 18:58
permalink #338 of 578: a (coiro) Wed 6 Nov 24 18:58
I think you've hit on the important difference, Ron - those of us who look ahead and see no hope, and the opposite. Both viewpoints are legit, to me.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #339 of 578: Elizabeth Churchill (leroyleroy) Wed 6 Nov 24 20:13
permalink #339 of 578: Elizabeth Churchill (leroyleroy) Wed 6 Nov 24 20:13
For people who say they want to fight and engage in activism, Im genuinely curious how much risk youd be willing to take. This time around weve seen that all the letter writing, phone calls, peaceful protests, and monetary donations didnt make enough difference. So under the new regime would you be willing to, for instance, risk being arrested for driving women across borders so they can obtain abortions? Or learn how to conduct safe abortions in your own kitchen? Would you be willing to hide and shelter fugitive immigrants or trans people or other outlaws in your attic? Would you be willing to attend a protest if theres a high probability youll be tazed, teargassed, shot at, beaten by cops, and arrested? If not, then what sorts of effective acts of resistance are you considering? Im not asking this as a hostile challenge, Im genuinely curious.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #340 of 578: David Turoff (condorito) Wed 6 Nov 24 20:24
permalink #340 of 578: David Turoff (condorito) Wed 6 Nov 24 20:24
Id be willing to do all of that; there are many worse ways to die.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #341 of 578: Ron Levin (eclectic2) Wed 6 Nov 24 20:28
permalink #341 of 578: Ron Levin (eclectic2) Wed 6 Nov 24 20:28
slip I'm not considering any acts of resistance right now. I'm still waiting to see what's going to happen before I decide how my time, money, and/or energy is best spent. Hopefully, we'll be able to defeat fascism peacefully. But if the circumstances seem to call for it, I'll do whatever needs to be done.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #342 of 578: E. Sweeney (sweeney) Wed 6 Nov 24 20:42
permalink #342 of 578: E. Sweeney (sweeney) Wed 6 Nov 24 20:42
I don't know I would advertise my intentions in a publicly available forum such as this one.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #343 of 578: David Turoff (condorito) Wed 6 Nov 24 20:46
permalink #343 of 578: David Turoff (condorito) Wed 6 Nov 24 20:46
Point taken.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #344 of 578: Richard Lawler (richardl) Wed 6 Nov 24 21:04
permalink #344 of 578: Richard Lawler (richardl) Wed 6 Nov 24 21:04
A little context. It looks like Harris lost Pennsylvania's 19 Electoral Votes to Trump by about 133,000 votes out of 6.8M votes. Nikki Haley got 157,000 protest votes against Trump in the Pennsylvania Republican Primary last April. She had dropped out of the race 5 weeks before the primary.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #345 of 578: Susan Carley Oliver (ohbejoyful) Wed 6 Nov 24 21:09
permalink #345 of 578: Susan Carley Oliver (ohbejoyful) Wed 6 Nov 24 21:09
For now, I like John Moe's take: Applied to foster a dog today. Already have two permanent dogs. It occurs to me that when I walk two dogs, I look like a dog owner. If I walk three, Ill look like a professional dog walker at work. Jill asked what kind of dog Id like to foster. I said ideally a small dog with good bathroom habits and social skills who is disappointed with how the world has worked out thus far. I could vibe with a dog like that. <https://bsky.app/profile/johnmoe.bsky.social/post/3lacxwjkaox2z>
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #346 of 578: Andrew Tro (druid) Wed 6 Nov 24 22:31
permalink #346 of 578: Andrew Tro (druid) Wed 6 Nov 24 22:31
<scribbled by druid Wed 6 Nov 24 23:04>
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #347 of 578: @allartburns@mastodon.social @liberalgunsmith@defcon.social (jet) Wed 6 Nov 24 22:40
permalink #347 of 578: @allartburns@mastodon.social @liberalgunsmith@defcon.social (jet) Wed 6 Nov 24 22:40
Look who else didn't vote in 2024 -- dems in blue PA cities. <https://www.publicsource.org/election-2024-map-results-trump-pa-allegheny-coun ty-voter-turnout/> (Allegheny County is where Pittsburgh is located.) "[...] Overall, about 710,000 of Allegheny Countyâs 952,539 registered voters participated, or 74.6% with a small amount of votes left to tally. Turnout in 2020 was 77.1%. And the precincts with turnout below the countyâs average were clustered in liberal areas: Pittsburgh, McKeesport, Penn Hills, Wilkinsburg and other nearby suburbs were among the lowest participating municipalities in the county. [...]"
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #348 of 578: Drew Trott (druid) Wed 6 Nov 24 23:09
permalink #348 of 578: Drew Trott (druid) Wed 6 Nov 24 23:09
I posted <346> without thinking that this was a publicly readable discussion. Here is a bowdlerized version: Angie your <327> really speaks to me. For my whole adult life I've clung to a belief in the possibility of progress. And it has long seemed that humanity's best hope of progress lay in the United States, with its liberal democratic traditions. Yes, it has a blood-soaked history and it's far from stain-free now. And it has been drifting in a clearly retrograde direction since at least 1980. But still there was always hope. We elected a black man, for Christ's sake! And with Joe Biden it was starting to look like we might be pointing federal economic and environmental policy in the right direction again. And then -- this. I don't know how much hope I have. Maybe not much. But I am not prepared to cede this land to the mob that has just grabbed power by shameless prevarication and appeals to the worst of human nature. I might feel differently if I belonged to a despised minority. But the very fact that I don't makes me feel that much more obligated to stay and resist. How? I don't know yet. But surely we can figure out how to solve this problem. I'm willing to die trying, anyway.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #349 of 578: Drew Trott (druid) Wed 6 Nov 24 23:14
permalink #349 of 578: Drew Trott (druid) Wed 6 Nov 24 23:14
Those low vote totals suggest two possibilities to me (not mutually exclusive): (1) Abstentions over Palestine, and (2) successful efforts to flood the zone with so much disinformation that some blue voters were frozen with indecision. I've seen some reports suggesting that a lot of voters were so confused by the talking points being thrown at them that they may have been unable to decide how to vote. Which in turn speaks to the pernicious effects of social media, plus way way way too much money in our electoral process.
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Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #350 of 578: Jennifer Powell (jnfr) Thu 7 Nov 24 06:49
permalink #350 of 578: Jennifer Powell (jnfr) Thu 7 Nov 24 06:49
Good morning once again, friends. Not sure how I'm feeling today. Not running, that's for sure, but not full of hope either. I guess I'm going to settle into what will be a long slog to try and save what we can.
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