inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #376 of 578: @allartburns@mastodon.social @liberalgunsmith@defcon.social (jet) Thu 7 Nov 24 16:55
    
In PA we get email when our mail-in ballot arives and also when it's
accepted.
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #377 of 578: a (coiro) Thu 7 Nov 24 17:00
    
With full disclosure I didn't have the heart to read this closely,
what little I did read made me bookmark it for later. Important
analysis. 

Why Democrats Are Losing the Culture War

The booming right-wing influencer ecosystem helped reelect Donald
Trump—and the other side may not have an answer.

By Spencer Kornhaber

Excerpt:

After all, the hottest commodity of today’s online cultural
ecosystem is open conflict. Chitchat on podcasts and livestreams is
transfixing because it’s unruly, argumentative, and unafraid of
causing offense. (Note how videos of dozens of voters engaged in
free-for-all debates, produced by the media company Jubilee, took
off this election cycle). Theoretically, it’s not hard to infiltrate
the new conservative information environment: Rogan tried to talk to
Harris, and the similarly influential podcaster Theo Von booked
Bernie Sanders. But most Democratic surrogates seem stuck on a
20th-century performance style, defined by slick sound bites or
soaring, cinematic monologues. They seem reluctant to do what these
new formats require, which is fight.

One example came when Rogan recently interviewed John Fetterman, the
senator from Pennsylvania whose entire brand is allegedly being
no-nonsense. Rogan presented him with the conspiracy theory that
Democrats were importing undocumented immigrants to swing states,
and planning to give them amnesty, in order to expand their voter
pool. Fetterman could have debunked that idea in any number of ways,
and forcefully. Instead he did what politicians have long been
trained to do in contentious interviews: find a point of
agreement—“you know, immigration is always going to be a tough issue
in this nation”—and change the subject. Rogan, and probably many of
his listeners, took this gauziness as evidence that the conspiracy
theory was right. The day before Rogan endorsed Trump, the podcaster
posted the clip of the exchange with the note “I think everyone
should understand exactly what is happening.”


Gift link:
<https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2024/11/right-wing-influencers-tru
mp-rogan/680575/?gift=1GQFLaQ1yhOu7hhb3PZC3GBoutfuQRsMRORD0TBzr8M&utm_source=c
opy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share>

I'm glad The Atlantic gives subscribers unlimited gift links,
because I sure seem to share their stuff a lot.
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #378 of 578: a (coiro) Fri 8 Nov 24 09:12
    
We - the Dems, the Left, the anti-Trump - need new leadership. The
Squad has brought new life into resistance and plain speaking.
Bernie, of course, never equivocates. Jamie Raskin is not unlike a
god, afaic. But as a whole, I have zero faith that the Dems have it
in them to pull on their shit-kicker boots and hold off Armageddon. 

What would organized, effective resistance look like? What are the
limits to what can be accomplished in four years? Within that frame,
what are realistic goals? 

I'm sorry to say my faith is - well, let's say I'm not brimming with
optimism. But surely they can do more than "let's reach across the
aisle". 
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #379 of 578: Axon (axon) Fri 8 Nov 24 09:31
    
>What would organized, effective resistance look like?

Like something we shouldn't discuss in public. If we can retake the
House and have Jeffries as Speaker, we could have a line of
succession strategy, anyway. There's still the logistical problem of
removing the POTUS and VPOTUS, if you catch my meaning.

There's discussion in the Senate about replacing Sotomayor on SCOTUS
before Jan 3. I don't expect it to come to much, but it's being
discussed. The GOP is also considering who they'll replace THomas
and Alito with, and they're looking for even more conservative
nominees. You may think they've hit bottom but they're digging hard.

This, to me, is the most ominous portent of the incoming reich. The
current majority is why the Blutocrats are going to get away with
rounding up undesirables by the boxcar. If they get to fill
Sotomayor's seat, it's only going to get worse, and for a
generation.
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #380 of 578: Emily Gertz (emilyg) Fri 8 Nov 24 09:43
    

I had this whole other thing ready to post, but now I'm going to
consider your question, Angie, and axon's answer, instead.
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #381 of 578: Rick Brown (danwest) Fri 8 Nov 24 09:55
    
I don't know how to talk to my family who all voted for Trump. They
don't care about my health insurance, lgbt rights, or anything.
Happily I live no where near them.

They say they love me. I don't believe it. My chosen family is much
much better and shares my values. 

I suspended my facebook account, because for now, I just can't...
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #382 of 578: a (coiro) Fri 8 Nov 24 10:41
    
God damn, that is heartbreaking. 

I'm so sorry, Rick. 
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #383 of 578: Axon (axon) Fri 8 Nov 24 10:50
    
Such a damned shame. For a "family values" party, they sure are
destroying a lot of them. Beams, brother.
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #384 of 578: @allartburns@mastodon.social @liberalgunsmith@defcon.social (jet) Fri 8 Nov 24 10:50
    
It's happening to a lot of people I know and also to me.  People are
having to re-think their interactions with so-called "loved ones" who
maybe don't love them very much, after all.
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #385 of 578: Trekked into Whoville (debunix) Fri 8 Nov 24 11:55
    
I'm really surprised by all the 'don't discuss resistance in an open
forum'.  Are you assuming the only effective resistance is violent
or that discussions of methods of protest will put us all on FBI
watch lists?  Some resistance is most effective when it is open and
public....
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #386 of 578: a (coiro) Fri 8 Nov 24 12:02
    
I'm kind of surprised by it too. More on that, please?

I'm thinking in terms of political strategies, nothing nefarious or
for that matter hideable. The GOP made no secret of "we're gonna
block Obama for four years", and god knows they were all too
successful.

What should the Dems do, and who are the leaders to get it done from
both inside and outside the party? 

Emily, no reason we can't have two threads going at once here. It is
after all The Well. ;) Just, whatever you do, don't cross the
streams!
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #387 of 578: E. Sweeney (sweeney) Fri 8 Nov 24 12:25
    
It's a reminder that Well users are used to posting in a more closed
and controlled forum, and this topic is world-readable. That's all. 
You can interpret the reverb as you wish.
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #388 of 578: Celia Chapman (lark) Fri 8 Nov 24 12:47
    
It's a good reminder. I post personal things on the Well that I
would not post on more public spaces. Good to remember this is a
public space.
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #389 of 578: Axon (axon) Fri 8 Nov 24 12:52
    
I have no confidence that there is a pure play political strategy
that will prove effective. Liberals are not going to build a media
bubble strategy like the right has. And even if we could, we may
have just witnessed our last legit election. This is 1933 Germany
now.

I expect that the younger cohorts will coalesce around a
defiance/noncompliance protest/general strike strategy, and I expect
it will be met with violence, state sponsored as well as by self
appointed keepers of the fascist faith. College campuses are the
most likely venues for these skirmishes.

At this point, civil disobedience is the deck we've been dealt, and
as for cautions about discretion, nobody ever won at cards by
showing their hand.
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #390 of 578: @allartburns@mastodon.social @liberalgunsmith@defcon.social (jet) Fri 8 Nov 24 16:29
    
>or that discussions of methods of protest will put us all on FBI watch
>lists?

Or get you swatted, doxxed, or attacked by MAGA supporters.

I'm talking to some other LGC (Liberal Gun Club) members on a private
forum about whether or not we want LGC stickers on our vehicles we
drive to the range.  My gun club is bipoc-friendly but other clubs
have a lot of vehicles with MAGA/Trump or worse, white-power
stickers.  Not belonging to members but possibly guests of members or
people attending an open-to-the-public competition.
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #391 of 578: Tiffany (magdalen) Fri 8 Nov 24 18:11
    <scribbled by magdalen Sat 9 Nov 24 15:25>
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #392 of 578: Elizabeth Churchill (leroyleroy) Fri 8 Nov 24 18:28
    
> i can think of many ideals and social justice issues i'd consider
shoving aside for a while

Such as? 
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #393 of 578: Paul Belserene (paulbel) Fri 8 Nov 24 18:29
    
I'm going to suggest that the best next steps are going to be small
and local.

Trump was elected by people whose needs and interests he has no
intention of addressing.  But people won't blame him for that;
they'll just continue to be aggrieved.

They are going to need help though, and small local efforts at 
organizing can perhaps minimize suffering and potentially represent
a better base.
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #394 of 578: Larry Person (lperson) Fri 8 Nov 24 18:31
    
> if something that feels good to the average American happens while
Trump is president

That won't happen.

> i can think of many ideals and social justice issues i'd consider
shoving aside for a while, if only someone might stop this crushing
feeling

Like what? Does it involve Trans people? Same sex marriage? 
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #395 of 578: Tiffany (magdalen) Fri 8 Nov 24 19:51
    <scribbled by magdalen Sat 9 Nov 24 15:25>
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #396 of 578: Larry Person (lperson) Fri 8 Nov 24 19:56
    
You may find that some people are not particularly receptive when
other people talk about abandoning "many ideals and social justice
issues" because it feels like you're turning your back. For your own
comfort. Like a little more than half the country did a few days
ago. 

People are terrified. I am terrified.

It's easy to understand. Eggs were expensive so they chose fascism
and untold suffering for their fellow Americans and human being
across the globe. And they did that because they are horrible
fucking people.
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #397 of 578: Elizabeth Churchill (leroyleroy) Fri 8 Nov 24 21:06
    

> hard to say

How hard would it be to say if you had a trans child? Trump has said
he plans to prosecute doctors, pharmacists, and parents who provide
necessary health care for trans children. How hard would it be if
they put you in jail and put your queer child into foster care where
he would be forced to undergo conversion therapy? This is real, this
is what they plan to do.

As Larry said, people are terrified. I’m terrified. 
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #398 of 578: Inkwell Co-Host (jonl) Fri 8 Nov 24 21:42
    
When I'm fearful I try to think in terms of love and compassion
instead. But it would be better not to have to fear the government
of my own country.

I heard an online stream from AOC tonight, and one thing she
mentioned was the importance of community. We here on the WELL have
an online community that still works after almost 40 years, a place
where we have conversations like this all the time. The sense of
community is real and it's deep - something you  don't get from
conversations on corporate social media platforms. One thing we can
do is share with the world how this community works and sustains
itself, to provide a model for those who want do do the same. 
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #399 of 578: Inkwell Co-Host (jonl) Fri 8 Nov 24 22:00
    
We scribbled (deleted) a post that should not have been made - I
won't get into the particulars of why we scribbled. However it's
important to remember that this is a world-readable discussion, and
we shouldn't share private information about other participants
without their permission.
  
inkwell.vue.550 : Angie Coiro and Friends: Election 2024
permalink #400 of 578: a (coiro) Fri 8 Nov 24 22:22
    
It's interesting to contrast - in light of Jon's point - my current
experience on BlueSky. Despite what I'm about to share, I like it a
lot. It's not Twitter in so many ways, not least of which is a
paucity of Nazis.

However. It's free, anyone can join, and no one is required to state
and document that they are who they say they are. Every day I'm
getting hit on by guys who only follow women - and a LOT of women.
I'm following people who claim to be from Gaza, and follow
immediately prompts a DM with a GoFundMe link to help their alleged
family, children, escape, whatever. Maybe they're real. More likely,
some are, and some are grifters. The point is, I don't know. 

I know who people are here. They make their statements and stand
behind them. Norms are established and respected - you wanna play
Creepy Weird Man, you will be at least isolated, possibly even shown
the door. 

I loved what I got out of the original Twitter. I'm eager to
recreate it, thus my sojourn into BlueSky. But my fresh experience
there does point up the difference between the Well and commercial
social entities. 

Community is at the very least a coping mechanism for a time like
this. It has and can again be fertile ground for resistance. 

Meanwhile, more political news: 

Democratic Sen. Jacky Rosen has won re-election in Nevada, NBC News
projects, defeating Republican Sam Brown and holding on to an
important seat for her party in a swing state.

The victory gives the first-term Rosen another six years in the
Senate, continuing Democrats’ winning streak in a state that has
become increasingly competitive on the federal level.

<https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/jacky-rosen-win-nevada-senate-e
lection-sam-brown-rcna173878>
  

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