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State of the News 2025
permalink #76 of 167: Dan Gillmor (dangillmor) Thu 16 Jan 25 17:44
permalink #76 of 167: Dan Gillmor (dangillmor) Thu 16 Jan 25 17:44
Did the NY Times ever take city coverage all that seriously? The pre-Murdoch Post and Daily News had far better city coverage, from my point of view, than the Times ever did. Yes, it was tabloid-ish, but my recollection (from a long time ago) is that they did a decent job overall. I agree re local commercial TV "news" is -- it's built around the accurate cliche, "If it bleeds it leads." That's had a pernicious effect over the years. Over a generation, crime rates plummeted in America. But largely thanks to local TV stations, the public believed the opposite -- and demagogues lobbied for, and got, ever-crueler criminal justice legislation. Some of the local nonprofit news sites are doing amazing work. In the Bay Area, Mission Local out-performs the Chronicle on local news. We shouldn't forget another source of local -- the conversations already taking place on sites that are bad for us in other ways. In our small town near SF, the Facebook group -- moderated expertly by someone who takes that role seriously (and I contribute to his Patreon fundraising) -- is the only place to get anything resembling news for the community. I hope we'll leave FB, given Zuckerberg's overtly disinformation-friendly moves to help Trump, but that's going to be a lift.
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State of the News 2025
permalink #77 of 167: Michael D. Sullivan (avogadro) Thu 16 Jan 25 19:55
permalink #77 of 167: Michael D. Sullivan (avogadro) Thu 16 Jan 25 19:55
In the Washington DC suburb of Montgomery County, the publisher of the lifestyle Bethesda Magazine has for a couple of years been publishing a free online local news service, with a daily email. Originally it was Bethesda Beat, then it became MoCo 360, and now it's Bethesda Today. They have two full-time reporters and surface a lot of important local news, including what's going on in the county council, restaurant openings, fires, robberies, etc. They periodically ask for contributions, and I throw them some bucks, although I'm phasing out my subscription to their Bethesda Magazine. There are a few other hyperlocal news sources on Facebook and whatever that also provide good local news. Much better than the WaPo.
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State of the News 2025
permalink #78 of 167: POOR TASTE IN KISS-WRITING (jswatz) Thu 16 Jan 25 20:01
permalink #78 of 167: POOR TASTE IN KISS-WRITING (jswatz) Thu 16 Jan 25 20:01
The NYT does still have a Metro desk, though it doesn't get the resources that it used to when the City Desk was basically The Times, and the other departments were bureaus. And while the tabs were livelier, the Times Metro desk at its best had full bureaus in all five boroughs and well regarded columnists like Meyer Berger <https://www.nytimes.com/1959/02/09/archives/meyer-berger-60-of-times-is- dead-reporter-got-pulitzer-prize-in-50.html> But the Metro desk has dwindled as the Times built its ambitions to be a national and global news organization. Speaking of big journalism questions, I have to wonder whether some of the people giving up their subscriptions to the Washington Post are going to find their way back to the NYT. I desperately wish the Post weren't going down this path.
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State of the News 2025
permalink #79 of 167: magdalen (magdalen) Thu 16 Jan 25 21:07
permalink #79 of 167: magdalen (magdalen) Thu 16 Jan 25 21:07
> I agree re local commercial TV "news" one day during the last Trump administration, i was out in a different part of the Oregon hinterlands reporting on a multi-site art piece. i sat in a country-style half-diner, half-nearly-empty shop with old metal shelves, eating eggs and hash browns and watching the nearest local-ish Fox News station with the sound off. the broadcast led with murders, focusing on suspects with Latino last names. then it descended into some other realms of darkness and woe. i noticed how different this local-ish Fox News broadcast was compared to the one in a small city near-ish where i live in Central Oregon. yes, ours covers murders, but it just isn't so dark and fear-mongering. anyway, i thought that was interesting. there's still some local in the local news. personally, i'm glad we have local commercial TV "news," and in our region here, an upstart internet-based one (Central Oregon Daily News). typically these folks are not breaking deep investigative stories, but they're tying communities together and combining entertainment, hard news, cute community stuff, and weather/wildfire. everyday people actually CARE about this. nonprofits i've worked for here, and a couple of feel-good, kid-oriented small businesses, got great coverage from local TV news. if your local news providers swirl some fun and community in with the dark stuff and the serious reporting, what's to complain about? that's like complaining about comics, horoscopes, bridge games, or Wordle in newspapers or newspaper sites. only a few of us are going to read all the investigative stories from start to finish. does that swing elections?
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State of the News 2025
permalink #80 of 167: Paula Span (pspan) Thu 16 Jan 25 23:56
permalink #80 of 167: Paula Span (pspan) Thu 16 Jan 25 23:56
In answer to Emily's question: The 15-year-old Institute for Nonprofit News represents 475 news organizations. Do they make up for the community newspapers that have died? Not yet, but it's a healthy development. Probably the Texas Tribune, also 15 years old, is the leader of the pack. Statewide. Hefty and diverse staff. Partners with national and local media. Publishes databases. Starting a statewide network of nonprofit newsrooms. Had its first layoffs in 2023, unsettling, but none since. I've been impressed by the Baltimore Banner, where I have a former student working. Also statewide. Now the biggest news organization in Maryland, according to Editor&Publisher. Eighty-five journalists. Working hard to fill the gaps led by the decimation of the local Baltimore Sun. Just partnered with the NYT on a big investigation about opioids. In New York, folks I know like Hell Gate, which is worker owned. And tiny, with about six reporters. But hiring! Here's a directory of nonprofit newsrooms. https://findyournews.org/ The big kahuna of course is ProPublica, and long may it wave.
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State of the News 2025
permalink #81 of 167: Dan Gillmor (dangillmor) Fri 17 Jan 25 01:41
permalink #81 of 167: Dan Gillmor (dangillmor) Fri 17 Jan 25 01:41
In the nonprofit category I want to give a shout-out to Mississippi Today -- https://mississippitoday.org/ -- a site that has done superb investigative reporting there. It also does at least some of the bread-and-butter coverage that is so vital yet increasingly rare. MT currently under attack from sleazy politicians who are abusing the legal system to try to kill it. See https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/politics/2024/12/20/ms-today-phil-bry ant-lawsuit-could-affect-how-stories-are-reported/76948054007/ for more. BTW, I give financial support to pretty much any small news org that I mention here. I hope others reading this will send money to the sites they consider valuable, especially ones local to you, because they are our (at least my) major hope for the future.
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State of the News 2025
permalink #82 of 167: someone who just sucked on a dill pickle (wendyg) Fri 17 Jan 25 04:00
permalink #82 of 167: someone who just sucked on a dill pickle (wendyg) Fri 17 Jan 25 04:00
Here in Britain local newspapers have also been starved. In my local area, the Richmond and Twickenham Times used to provide enough stories by itself to fill each week's 45-minute edition of the talking newspaper recorded for and sent to visually impaired people. Now, finding enough stories involves that paper's website as well as the "nub" newsaggregator, the Twickenham Tribune, and loads of other local sites. However, when the London-wide newspaper The Evening Standard got bought and turned into a weekly website (it was daily, in print), Jim Waterson set up London Centric - unfortunately on Substack - to do real cictywide reporting. He's doing good stuff. Britain also has TheFerret.scot, an investigative cooperative focusing on Scotland, and the Bristol Cable (same thing, in Bristol). Journalism continues. It's the corporate business model that's broken. The Register, now a stalwart of technology journalism, started circa 1991 when two guys decided to do an emailed newsletter on the chip industry. Then came the web and advertising, and that's when it became a financially viable business. It's remained independent all these years, and now hires an editor I used to work for when he was at Ziff-Davis in SF. All those layers of middle management are really expensive. wg /.
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State of the News 2025
permalink #83 of 167: Paula Span (pspan) Fri 17 Jan 25 07:14
permalink #83 of 167: Paula Span (pspan) Fri 17 Jan 25 07:14
You're right, Dan, I should have shouted out Mississippi Today. And I do throw money at several of these when I can. Speaking of which, here's a topic that's been around for years and still bugs me: Is it really so impossible to allow would-be readers to buy access to a single story for a paltry sum? Would it cost more than it brings in? The demand is obviously there.
It's been over 25 years since I lived in San Francisco, but when I need to deep dive into SF politics or culture, I turn to 48 Hills, an independent newsroom edited by old friend Tim Redmond, whom I got to know when we were both volunteer staff at the Haight Ashbury Switchboard, and who was then a reporter for the Bay Guardian. When that turned toxic, Tim founded and with some other renegade castoffs from the Guardian launched 48 Hills, now published by the San Francisco Progressive Media Center, a 501(c)(3).
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State of the News 2025
permalink #85 of 167: Robin Thomas (robin) Fri 17 Jan 25 07:52
permalink #85 of 167: Robin Thomas (robin) Fri 17 Jan 25 07:52
My dream would be for these smaller local papers to confederate and allow a subscription that covers them all. Like a museum membership that has reciprocal members. I subscribe to three Louisiana papers, the Times-Picayune, The Lens, and the Louisiana Illuminator, because we live there part time, and they do good investigative work. All three are better papers than whatever the nom du jour of the East Bay Times is, to which I also subscribe. Id love to be able to dip into papers like those that have been mentioned, but cant justify subscribing because of an occasional interest.
>allow would-be readers to buy access to a single story for a paltry sum? There's an opportunity there for someone to exploit. What is needed is a reconciliation middleware app that a user can subscribe to monthly (with cafeteria pricing, from peanuts for a handful of articles to premium pricing for all you can eat) that would show your pass to the media property when you click on an article, and then compensates the media properties based on volume, pocketing the delta. I think it's a billion dollar idea, and I offer it as a mitzvah. If I was younger, I'd write up a pro forma and a pitch deck and shop it around the venture community myself.
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State of the News 2025
permalink #87 of 167: With catlike tread (sumac) Fri 17 Jan 25 09:58
permalink #87 of 167: With catlike tread (sumac) Fri 17 Jan 25 09:58
I don't understand why that, or something like it, has never happened. What are the barriers?
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State of the News 2025
permalink #88 of 167: POOR TASTE IN KISS-WRITING (jswatz) Fri 17 Jan 25 10:27
permalink #88 of 167: POOR TASTE IN KISS-WRITING (jswatz) Fri 17 Jan 25 10:27
Paula brought up the Texas Tribune, which is still going strong â though they hit a bump and experienced their first layoffs ever just last year. It's an important news organization that feeds its work to other news orgs across the state, and regularly breaks news. Their founding publisher, Evan Smith, moved on, and he was a genius fundraiser. Anyone else would have trouble measuring up. But they are still working their asses off and will be invaluable in the hellish legislative session that began this week.
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State of the News 2025
permalink #89 of 167: someone who just sucked on a dill pickle (wendyg) Fri 17 Jan 25 10:32
permalink #89 of 167: someone who just sucked on a dill pickle (wendyg) Fri 17 Jan 25 10:32
It has been tried. I'm blanking right now in the name, but it wsa a German operation that aimed to be something like streaming services but for publications. You paid in a modest amount and then could pay something like 25 cents to read a single article. It failed in the UK, but actually did pay some German publishers (millions IIRC). Not sure if it's still going. wg
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State of the News 2025
permalink #90 of 167: someone who just sucked on a dill pickle (wendyg) Fri 17 Jan 25 10:33
permalink #90 of 167: someone who just sucked on a dill pickle (wendyg) Fri 17 Jan 25 10:33
Slipped. "It" refers to #87 and something like a subscription service for an aggregation of publishers. wg
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State of the News 2025
permalink #91 of 167: Paulina Borsook (loris) Fri 17 Jan 25 10:38
permalink #91 of 167: Paulina Borsook (loris) Fri 17 Jan 25 10:38
(as an aside, there is also 'the frisc' in sf, somewhat similar to mission local and 48 hills. am acquainted with one of the head guys behind it; but alas to me it seems duplicative and i never find a reason to read it. and i think the name is really bad...)
>What are the barriers? It has to scale galactically at launch. Huge capital intensive build out for an uncertain appetite. At least that's what the VCs will tell you while trying to find a way to snake it to one of their captive startups.
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State of the News 2025
permalink #93 of 167: Paulina Borsook (loris) Fri 17 Jan 25 10:58
permalink #93 of 167: Paulina Borsook (loris) Fri 17 Jan 25 10:58
wrt #92, cant see why vcs would be interested in this. wouldnt have the insane upside they look for; media is a losing business.
It doesn't fit the typical investment arc of incremental rounds triggered by milestones. As I say, it has to scale on day one; high pucker factor.
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State of the News 2025
permalink #95 of 167: Dan Gillmor (dangillmor) Fri 17 Jan 25 18:58
permalink #95 of 167: Dan Gillmor (dangillmor) Fri 17 Jan 25 18:58
Micro-payments for news is an idea that makes sense to everyone but news providers. I agree with Axon (#92 above) -- it's hard to imagine a third party willing to set up something that would have to have huge scale, and the publishers are not willing to do it themselves for whatever reason. Moreover, each publisher values its own content more than the market would value it, IMO.
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State of the News 2025
permalink #96 of 167: POOR TASTE IN KISS-WRITING (jswatz) Fri 17 Jan 25 20:51
permalink #96 of 167: POOR TASTE IN KISS-WRITING (jswatz) Fri 17 Jan 25 20:51
Meanwhile, we're being asked to support individual writers via Substack. Big news organizations offer economies of scale, at least.
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State of the News 2025
permalink #97 of 167: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Sat 18 Jan 25 07:22
permalink #97 of 167: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Sat 18 Jan 25 07:22
Personally, I'm well-served by news aggregators. My primary is Apple News+, which allows me to read content from a rather large number of periodicals, including both magazines and newspapers. The cost is reasonable, $12.99 per month. There's also Google News, which is free. I also use a news reader, NewsBlur, at $36 per year. Through these three sources I have substantial access - more than I can track. I agree that suppport for micropayments would be a good thing for many, but I have access to any story I want to read. I've also noticed sites (like Yahoo) that provide open access to stories that are paywalled at the source. I do wonder how Apple manages to offer so much access for so small a price.
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State of the News 2025
permalink #98 of 167: J Matisse Enzer (matisse) Sat 18 Jan 25 08:32
permalink #98 of 167: J Matisse Enzer (matisse) Sat 18 Jan 25 08:32
I also use Apple News but these days the primary aggregator I use, and pay for (there is a free version as well) is Ground News, which includes ratings of the news sources as to factuality, ownership, left/right bias. https://ground.news/
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State of the News 2025
permalink #99 of 167: Larry Person (lperson) Sat 18 Jan 25 10:17
permalink #99 of 167: Larry Person (lperson) Sat 18 Jan 25 10:17
Matisse: interesting Jon: Can you share the same subscription with someone in your "apple family" (like, my husband) without paying for a second subscription? Re <95> this doesn't feel like a daunting scalability problem. I think it's possible to make it profitable by charging a membership fee or charging per view. Monthly memberships could be expensive and unlimited, cheaper and limited (100 views a month?), or one-off (most expensive). Without looking at actual numbers I _feel_ like someone could make money off that. The reason I wouldn't worry about scaling is this service wouldn't serve any content and it wouldn't be a search engine. In the scheme of things, the transactions it would handle are rare (a million a second? nope. A thousand a second? Maybe? But if someone pays for an article they're going to read it so every user won't be hammering the system more than once every couple of minutes) The hardest part would be the spotify-like agreements you'd need to make with every news outlet and the infrastructure they'd need to build to support it. Alternatively maybe it _could_ serve the content (like archive.ph, which I, um, cough cough never use) which it retrieves from the news outlets using its own account. That might be much easier to negotiate and puts implementation onus on the service. A reason that wouldn't work is ad revenue. The ad targeting would be to the service's account, not the end user. There are probably technical ways around that as well. > Meanwhile, we're being asked to support individual writers via Substack. Big news organizations offer economies of scale, at least. Is there a way for these individual writers to form a cooperative that would create an economy of scale?
>a way for these individual writers to form a cooperative that would create an economy of scale I think that's The Contrarian's not-so-secret sauce. A lot of the names on their masthead are already publishing on Substack. This looks increasingly like an eyeball aggregation play, rather than a content aggregation strategy.
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