Inkwell: Authors and Artists
Topic 524: John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
inkwell.vue.524
:
John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #76 of 141: Peter Richardson (richardsonpete) Fri 27 Jan 23 17:07
permalink #76 of 141: Peter Richardson (richardsonpete) Fri 27 Jan 23 17:07
I don't think John was present when we discussed The Nation review of his book when it first appeared, but I still want to charge that review with literary malpractice. As John notes, Harris reviewed Stewart the person, not the book that John wrote. I've always thought that reviewers should measure the book against its own stated or implicit goals. Actually, a lot of people think that. Harris implied that he alone detected Stewart's shortcomings, and that John was was trying (and failing) to make Stewart look good. In fact, everything Harris charged Stewart with came directly from the bio. Harris not only didn't measure the book against its own goals, but he misled the magazine's readers about what those goals were. In short, whoever read that review knew less about the book than someone who never read the review in the first place. I don't take any pleasure in faulting The Nation, but that was a bad show. As the number of reputable outlets that review books continues to decline, it's crappy that a very significant piece of work would be vandalized in this way. I didn't know about Harris's background or forthcoming book, so thanks of that info, John.
inkwell.vue.524
:
John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #77 of 141: Renshin Bunce (renshin) Fri 27 Jan 23 18:24
permalink #77 of 141: Renshin Bunce (renshin) Fri 27 Jan 23 18:24
We had a lot to say about the review in The Nation over in the Books Conference when it first came out. I was amazed to see a review be about the subject and not about the book, and found it to be more of a hatchet job than a review
inkwell.vue.524
:
John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #78 of 141: Paul Belserene (paulbel) Fri 27 Jan 23 19:26
permalink #78 of 141: Paul Belserene (paulbel) Fri 27 Jan 23 19:26
I've noticed that the New Yorker often uses the publication of a book as an excuse for a kind of mashup of review and deep dive into the subject. But I don't think that's what Harris was doing. I think he was grinding an axe.
inkwell.vue.524
:
John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #79 of 141: John Markoff (johnm) Fri 27 Jan 23 21:10
permalink #79 of 141: John Markoff (johnm) Fri 27 Jan 23 21:10
<77> I grew up reading the Nation and once upon a time (in the 1970s) I wrote for it. I actually let my subscription lapse after they did an earlier hit piece about Tsutomu Shimomura and me. Kevin Mitnick was a Robin Hood in their eyes and I was the big bad New York Times. Sigh.
inkwell.vue.524
:
John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #80 of 141: Tom Valovic (tvacorn) Sat 28 Jan 23 05:43
permalink #80 of 141: Tom Valovic (tvacorn) Sat 28 Jan 23 05:43
Thanks John. I didnt mean to sound overly pejorative with the part chameleon comment. I think Stewart was one of those rare individuals with more interests and ideas than time to fulfill them. Im actually quite familiar with that mindset and way of negotiating personal experience having some of those traits myself. It can at times be more of a curse than a blessing but certainly makes life interesting. In this sense, I am sympathetic. Much less so, of course, in terms of the pivot from the core values of the environmental and consciousness movement. By the way, let me note that you and I have something in common as the two technology writers who first broke the news to the world about the advent of the public Internet. My own piece of this was detailed in my book Digital Mythologies which I believe is still represented here in <inkwell>. My version, of course, appeared in the trade magazine Telecommunciations where I was an editor. Vint Cerf was on our advisory board and called me at home one Sunday afternoon to alert me to this development -- which at the time went right over my head. After some extensive research, the significance hit me like a freight train. My name was probably not on the faxed copy of the article I sent to the Times, so you still might not make that connection. Lets just say we tag teamed it.
inkwell.vue.524
:
John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #81 of 141: Tom Valovic (tvacorn) Sat 28 Jan 23 05:45
permalink #81 of 141: Tom Valovic (tvacorn) Sat 28 Jan 23 05:45
In terms of your question to me about Brands politics, I wouldnt want to hazard a guess. Eclectic is a word that springs to mind but I dont think theres a party for that yet. If pressed, to be candid, I find the political environment of the Silicon Valley somewhat perplexing, mixing as it does liberalism with a heavy dash of militarism and surveillance that I personally associate more with conservatives. My off the cuff take is that this odd and somewhat paradoxical admixture applied to some extent to Brand as well. To explore this further, I guess it would be important to trace the enantiodromia-like political transformation that took place from the somewhat faux-leftist original Whole Earth paradigm in a line of succession/progession to the watershed event of Wired embracing Newt Gingrich and, of course, Nixon speechwriter George Gilder. I find this coziness with the right highly significant but the extent to which it reflected Brands own political thought progression is something Im still looking into. But I suspect strong parallels.
inkwell.vue.524
:
John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #82 of 141: Tom Valovic (tvacorn) Sat 28 Jan 23 06:12
permalink #82 of 141: Tom Valovic (tvacorn) Sat 28 Jan 23 06:12
Another thing that struck me about your book was that less time and coverage was devoted to the role of the triumvirate: Brand, Rheingold, and Kelly. As you probably know, Fred Turners book dealt extensively with the very intellectually rigorous and paradigm-changing work that Howard and Kevin Kelly did to further Brands vision. In this sense, they did the heavy lifting. Although I had and still have profound disagreements with their pre-Transhumanist views of the world (and I continue to write about this from time to time), it has to be acknowledged that theyre both fascinating and deeply intelligent thinkers in the evolution of discourse related to the Web/Internet and its profound social implications. Please understand that Im expressing this not as a critique of your book per se because at over 400 pages, it appears that you chose to focus more exclusively on Stewarts own direct personal experience. Certainly legitimate. Rather, speaking only as a reader, I was a little disappointed not to see more about their roles, especially as I found your book somewhat more readable than Turners. Nevertheless, Im sure you would acknowledge that in the 90s and beyond, it was really the three of them (not necessarily in the same time frame) acting together that was the real force majeure in shaping much of the Internet ethos. It might be a bit superficial to compare this synergistic mind meld to something like the Lennon/McCartney collaboration with the sum being greater than the parts, but I do have that sense and wonder if perhaps you do as well. I havent had a lot of contact with either on a personal level. I met Howard once to have coffee in Mill Valley and of course we emailed and spoke with Kevin on the phone when he published an article of mine in the Whole Earth Review. But I think Im quite familiar with their body of work as my own book was fully intended to be a critique of theirs.
inkwell.vue.524
:
John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #83 of 141: Howard Rheingold (hlr) Sat 28 Jan 23 07:58
permalink #83 of 141: Howard Rheingold (hlr) Sat 28 Jan 23 07:58
My role was really tiny in comparison with Kevin's. He and Stewart were great partners and continue to be. I had and have a great relationship with Kevin. I never had any dispute with Stewart. We just didn't have the same affinity that Kevin and I had. Our offices were feet apart, but we didn't interact. (I always thought that this was one of Stewart's virtues: he didn't believe the general should be micromanaging lieutenants.) I do have one Stewart story: I saw him coming out of his office one day and he was sporting a new, large, Swiss army knife. I asked him about it and he gave a short talk about each blade. I especially remember: "You could cut your way out of a car trunk with this one."
inkwell.vue.524
:
John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #84 of 141: Howard Rheingold (hlr) Sat 28 Jan 23 07:59
permalink #84 of 141: Howard Rheingold (hlr) Sat 28 Jan 23 07:59
BTW, maybe I missed it, but I think one of my questions got lost in the flow: Considering all that has gone before, and that he is in his 80s, why do you think Stewart thinks it so important to write a book now on maintenance? I see a certain symmetry with "How Buildings Learn," but I wonder how you see this in the arc of his story, John.
inkwell.vue.524
:
John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #85 of 141: John Coate (tex) Sat 28 Jan 23 08:25
permalink #85 of 141: John Coate (tex) Sat 28 Jan 23 08:25
Once in the late 80s J. Baldwin and I were speculating at the Whole Earth Review office on what all of the objects were in the many little pouches attached to Stewart's belt belt. JB said, "I think one contains some fishing line in case you get stranded in the outback."
inkwell.vue.524
:
John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #86 of 141: John Markoff (johnm) Sat 28 Jan 23 10:38
permalink #86 of 141: John Markoff (johnm) Sat 28 Jan 23 10:38
<80> That is a great bit of history Tom. I came to the story by way of Brian Reid at DEC. He told me the web would be a great way for mid career computer scientists to re invent their careers by quickly reaching their audience. In my case it was an example of getting it all right and all wrong at the same time. My lede was: Think of it as a map to the buried treasures of the Internet. When I wrote treasure, I was thinking information, not actually money .😳
inkwell.vue.524
:
John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #87 of 141: Ari Davidow (ari) Sat 28 Jan 23 10:50
permalink #87 of 141: Ari Davidow (ari) Sat 28 Jan 23 10:50
Given Stewart's proclivity for moving on, what is he most excited about now (and forgive me if it's already been discussed and just missed it)?
inkwell.vue.524
:
John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #88 of 141: John Markoff (johnm) Sat 28 Jan 23 10:54
permalink #88 of 141: John Markoff (johnm) Sat 28 Jan 23 10:54
<82> Agree on not focusing on the triumvirate in the biography. I followed Stewart and I think when he left running CQ, he checked out intellectually and emotionally more than people realize. In his mind he never went back and he let it run itself. The longer conversation that we should have is over Freds argument on the roots of the digital libertarian or whatever you want to call it Internet culture or what have you that he attributes to the WELL. I will probably get jumped on for saying this (but I was there). I have always argued that the WELL was much more of a sideshow than Fred asserted. There was a digital culture with libertarian overtones emerging, but it was happening before the WELL and was far more diffuse geographically. If I was to look for the real roots of Internet culture I would not point at either the WELL or at Wired. Instead I found all of this alive and well in USENET as well as in Compuserve, the Source and Prodigy going back into the late 1970s. Or look at something like 8BBS, a thriving system in Bernard Klatts home on El Camino Real in Santa Clara that was the first bulletin board bust in 81 or 82. That culture was alive and well in the hobbyist community a half a decade earlier and not particularly tied to Silicon Valley even at that point. Im sure I will get a lot of pushback on this, but I think the WELL had an out of scale reputation, not because it was early or particularly distinct, but instead because Stewart made a brilliant marketing move in letting all of the technology writers hang out there for free. We were all there and we all wrote about it.
inkwell.vue.524
:
John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #89 of 141: Inkwell Host (jonl) Sat 28 Jan 23 11:13
permalink #89 of 141: Inkwell Host (jonl) Sat 28 Jan 23 11:13
In "The Modem World," Kevin Driscoll writes a history of BBS evolution and acknowledges that the BBS world had significant influence on the evolution of the Internet. (The WELL was a prominent early BBS, perhaps the largest and most active of its time.) We had an <inkwell.vue> discussion with Kevin. See <inkwell.vue.520>, or for those who are not members of the WELL, <https://people.well.com/conf/inkwell.vue/topics/520/Kevin-Driscoll-The-Modem-W orld-A-page01.html>.
inkwell.vue.524
:
John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #90 of 141: Andrew Alden (alden) Sat 28 Jan 23 11:15
permalink #90 of 141: Andrew Alden (alden) Sat 28 Jan 23 11:15
No pushback from me. But the beauty of the Well is that it's still-living history, e.g. this very conversation.
inkwell.vue.524
:
John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #91 of 141: John Coate (tex) Sat 28 Jan 23 11:25
permalink #91 of 141: John Coate (tex) Sat 28 Jan 23 11:25
No question about the writers on the WELL and what that did. On its true contribution, I don't think the WELL did much that was original. I think what we did that had actual influence was plumb the depths of what was possible in using the online medium to build relationships - of all kinds. Maybe others got there in some ways before we did, and I guess it is thanks to the writers - like you! - but we showed people that there was no limit to what people could do with each other when the online medium is the chief means of congregating. This inspired people which is what Steve Case noted about it to me in a conversation in the 90s. Many other have conveyed this to me over the years. This is a minor side note, but since the WELL has come up, and for the record, I am mentioned on page 309 it describes me advocating for a federation of local WELLs. That was someone's idea for expansion, but not mine. I wanted to focus on making the WELL platform more multi-media as well as focus less on being an ISP.
inkwell.vue.524
:
John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #92 of 141: Howard Rheingold (hlr) Sat 28 Jan 23 11:42
permalink #92 of 141: Howard Rheingold (hlr) Sat 28 Jan 23 11:42
Agree about WELL's oversized reputation in the context of BBSs, Usenet, even PLATO, but I do think that what the WELL publicity offered was a model of what life online could be.
inkwell.vue.524
:
John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #93 of 141: John Coate (tex) Sat 28 Jan 23 11:49
permalink #93 of 141: John Coate (tex) Sat 28 Jan 23 11:49
The WELL was very much a bridge between USENET and computer professionals who used it, and the general public. The WELL was the easiest way to tap into USENET if you didn't have access at a university or a corporation. And the WELL allowed certain Unix pros to have shell accounts where they honed their chops by making utilities for WELL users to enjoy. This was a unique merging of cultures at the time.
inkwell.vue.524
:
John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #94 of 141: John Markoff (johnm) Sat 28 Jan 23 11:50
permalink #94 of 141: John Markoff (johnm) Sat 28 Jan 23 11:50
<87> When I began research in late 2016 Stewart had been thinking about an autobiography or a memoir, but decided he didnt have the energy for the project, and so Kevin Kelly rang me and suggested I work on a biography. Sometime after our interviews I think in 2019 (I may be off on this) Stewart became fascinated with the role/importance that maintenance plays in maintaining the fabric of civilization. (This all came after we had stopped having weekly conversations and it was more than a decade after I put a stake the ground to try to separate biography from journalism.) I think a prototype chapter is now public and there is an audio version of it. He is deeply into the project and basically putting off all kinds of invitations and distractions in order to stay focus. He is having a great time doing the research which echoes his time spent on How Buildings Learn. To mind there is a great deal of continuity in this going back at least as far as his early conversation with Danny Hillis about the clock. When Danny sent out his first email proposing the idea, Stewart was the only one to responded he argued that a clock project needed a library. There is also the great story about the Oxford University forest that had been planted centuries before to replace the oak beams in a building. It all places maintenance at the foundation of a functioning civilization .
inkwell.vue.524
:
John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #95 of 141: John Markoff (johnm) Sat 28 Jan 23 11:56
permalink #95 of 141: John Markoff (johnm) Sat 28 Jan 23 11:56
That was also an attempt to answer Howards question <84> on why Stewart is so caught up with the importance of maintenance. His Pace Layer work, which describes a hierarchy of slow to fast change from geological to fashion is also a part of this perspective. The library is a source of continuity, and of course the secret of the clock project will rely far more on maintenance than the initial $100 million or so Jeff Bezos put in to its construction ..
inkwell.vue.524
:
John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #96 of 141: John Markoff (johnm) Sat 28 Jan 23 12:01
permalink #96 of 141: John Markoff (johnm) Sat 28 Jan 23 12:01
<93>. Johns point on the WELL being bridge is super important. As a young reporter in probably the late 70s I learned about Human-Nets, which I found fascinating because it was a window into a world where I could learn about what the designers of computing technologies were thinking about their impact. I was desperate to get access and ultimately managed to do it: The ARPAnet tip at NASA-AMES was not password protected, so if you had a modem you could get to the ARPAnet. Then you just had to make your way to the MIT-AI machine where accounts were freely available. Once I had an account I could read and post to HUMAN-NETS my own little proto-WELL!
inkwell.vue.524
:
John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #97 of 141: John Coate (tex) Sat 28 Jan 23 12:23
permalink #97 of 141: John Coate (tex) Sat 28 Jan 23 12:23
I am very much looking forward to Stewart's book about maintenance. I was an auto mechanic and interstate truck driver before I worked at the WELL, when I lived communally in big households I was always the guy who maintained the vehicles and appliances and I live now on a couple of acres on the Mendocino coast which requires constant creative maintenance. Even when working at offices I was always going around tightening screws and cleaning out filters. Never lost the habit.
inkwell.vue.524
:
John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #98 of 141: Craig Maudlin (clm) Sat 28 Jan 23 13:30
permalink #98 of 141: Craig Maudlin (clm) Sat 28 Jan 23 13:30
From <94>: > It all places maintenance at the foundation of a functioning > civilization.... And highlights a through-line that goes all the way back to Bateson and the original meaning of 'Cybernetics.' As Stewart wrote (in 1974): > Cybernetics is the science of communication and control. It has > little to do with machines unless you want to pursue that special > case. It has mostly to do with life, with maintaining circuit. ^^^^^^^^^^^ Naturally, decades of short-term conversations have come to be dominated by the attention-grabbing events surrounding "that special case." So much so that 'Cybernetics' and the "Cyber" idiom have come to refer to a mere subset of the original. Perhaps, language and thinking itself, are in need of some skillful maintenance.
inkwell.vue.524
:
John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #99 of 141: Virtual Sea Monkey (karish) Sat 28 Jan 23 13:56
permalink #99 of 141: Virtual Sea Monkey (karish) Sat 28 Jan 23 13:56
More public awareness of the need for maintenance would be a great thing. A couple of years ago I read several magazine articles about the (very large) projected cost of bringing deferred maintenance of infrastructure up to date. We read about visible issues - the proportion of bridges that are in danger of falling down - and about high-profile ones like Chris Christie vetoing the replacement of train tunnels under the Hudson and the positive story of the work to fix the Croton Aqueduct. The little stuff that adds up to the great majority of the needed work is ignored until it breaks (Oroville Dam, anyone?). The prospective need to maintain buildings and infrastructure doesn't seem to be part of the calculation when we decide whether to build new things.
inkwell.vue.524
:
John Markoff, Whole Earth: The Many Lives of Stewart Brand, with Howard Rheingold
permalink #100 of 141: Virtual Sea Monkey (karish) Sat 28 Jan 23 13:57
permalink #100 of 141: Virtual Sea Monkey (karish) Sat 28 Jan 23 13:57
(slip) I don't think that usage regarding cybernetics is directly relevant here.
Members: Enter the conference to participate. All posts made in this conference are world-readable.